Leah Warwick: Hi, everyone. I’m Leah Warwick, and you’re listening to “The Admin Edge.” Here at ASAP, we provide leadership training through online courses and conferences, for roles such as executive assistants, administrative managers, executive business partners, and chiefs of staff. This episode is about what it takes to lead and be seen as a leader, so I hope you enjoy this conversation between me and Executive Leader Ellen Bailey at the ASAP event “EA Ignite.”

Hi, I’m Leah Warwick, Senior Content Manager for the American Society of Administrative Professionals. My guest today is Ellen Bailey, previously VP of Business and Culture Transformation at Harvard Business Publishing, and currently at McKesson leading executive development, and she was a featured speaker at this event, EA Ignite. Welcome to the podcast, Ellen.

00:01:01

Ellen Bailey: Thank you. I’m happy to be here.

Leah Warwick: It’s such a thrill having you here, meeting you in person, and you’re going to speak later and I’m so excited to see you on the main stage. In fact, your keynote later today is on a subject near and dear to my heart (and to many in our community), owning your role as a leader, because sometimes even the most skilled business partners and executive administrators struggle with stepping into their power as strategic leaders in executive spaces. It can be a lot, to say the least, so what tools and strategies would you recommend to help them build up that executive energy and confidence to lead?

00:01:42

Ellen Bailey: I think there’s really like two parts to it, and the first part is making sure that we do actually think like that executive and think like that leader. I went many years being really technically sound at the good thing that I did every year as part of my job description, and I would get the little awards and I’d get the recognition, but I wasn’t actually stepping up and having those strategic conversations that I should have. So people were seeing me just in this basic role versus seeing me for my potential.

So I think one is really understanding and thinking like that leader, like executives do. But then there’s a second part to that as well because it’s not how do you do that and how do you show up in that way. So then I think step two of that is just really making sure that you have the people around you that can help you also anticipate what’s coming, because even though you show up today kind of matching wits with your executives, you want to make sure that you even go one step further, which is anticipating and thinking beyond the moment, and helping them think beyond the moment.

00:02:51

So it’s surrounding yourself with people — and I’ll talk about that a little bit more today — like a personal board of directors that help you get that knowledge so that you have the knowledge and the confidence to show up as those executives that we all work with every day.

Leah Warwick: I love that because that is what I hear, that executives themselves often have people around them. They’re not just making decisions in a vacuum, right? So having that for yourself is very important. At ASAP, we believe all administrative professionals should have leadership skills and opportunities to develop those skills, and that’s part of why we have training events like EA Ignite. So what resources, lessons learned, or people along the way helped you develop as a leader?

Ellen Bailey: Sure. So I always joke, too, like I went to a small state school, Missouri. I’m from St. Louis. I didn’t get recruited out of school. I didn’t get those mentors and sponsors. I don’t even know that I knew what that was until my midlife.

00:03:51

So I say that because it’s really important that we proactively think through: What are we looking to accomplish? What do we want to do in our career? And then make sure that we do network, and not just network like exchange business cards and have a chat over a cocktail, but really be intentional about surrounding yourself with people that can help you get to that next level. That is actually an action that I think is really critical that we take.

And then tools — I am a learner by trade. This also goes back to that “beyond the moment” thinking piece. I apologize for all people that I offend by not necessarily always being green, because sometimes I just need the paper book. I just like the paper book so I can highlight it and flag it, and then I also usually have a second copy that’s a clean copy that I keep.

00:04:40

But I say that because I am an avid reader when it comes to periodicals or books to make sure that I have the latest, greatest thought leadership and thinking. So that is everything from how I show up — because we know perceptions are folks’ realities, regardless, so that’s everything from how I show up to the business acumen, savviness, and knowledge that helps me challenge our leaders and extend their thinking.

Leah Warwick: Because you mentioned matching in a way your executive’s energy yourself, understanding, syncing up is vital. So what does executive presence mean to you? And what clues you into this quality in others, especially today, when we’re navigating an increasingly hybrid and fragmented workplace?

Ellen Bailey: Sure. And executive presence, to me — depending on the day, I think I love that term or phrase, and other days I’m like,  “I don’t think I like it. I think it makes me feel icky.” And so I can’t decide if I like it or not, to be quite frank.

00:05:44

But on the days that I like it, I’m like, well, because it kind of says exactly what we need it to say, right? I say that because I think the perception is — people have a misunderstanding, I should say, that executive presence means you have to dress like that leader. You must always wear a suit, but you don’t even like suits. Or you must have closed-toed shoes, but you live in Texas (like me). You only have open-toed shoes. So what do you do there?

00:06:08

I think that sometimes people think that they have to assimilate. They have to code switch. They have to do other things. And the answer to all of that is no. You absolutely be authentic. Bring your humor. Bring whatever is real to you when it comes to the conversation. What we need to be crazy intentional about are two things.

So, yeah, be yourself, but make sure that you do what I’m going to say [is] “dress the part.” How do you want people to perceive you in the industry and in your organization? So if you want them to treat you as a professional, then it’s maybe not the day that I wear my sport hoodie. I wear my sport hoodie a lot, but maybe I do that in my team meeting. Maybe I do that in other places. But maybe that day, I don’t necessarily have to have the jacket and the suit, but I maybe didn’t wear the hoodie that actually has a hole in it, but it’s my favorite and I’m never giving it up, right?

00:07:09

So it doesn’t mean, again, you have to be this overly conservative, blue suit, red tie individual, but we do need to dress how we want people to perceive us. So if I’m thinking about my CEO at an organization and how they show up, I expect them to look like they’ve got it together. So, again, it doesn’t need to be formal at all, but I want to look like they’ve got it together. So I want to show up and I want people to think I’ve got it together, and I want to do everything in my power to minimize bias that could potentially get filtered in there, regardless if it’s accurate or not.

00:07:53

Everybody will have bias. If I wear the Liverpool hoodie with the hole in it, people are automatically going to judge me based on that hoodie, regardless of if I like it or not. So that’s one piece of it is how we show up visually.

The second piece, though, is about being intentional about the language that we use, so regardless of what we’re looking like visually, we need to make sure that every single thing that comes out of our mouth is strategic, intentional, and smart. So hallway conversations matter. The small talk when you hop on that virtual call before everybody joins is critical.

Executive presence is making sure that people see you not just for who you are, but your potential and the value that you can bring. So look the way that it would make sense, and then, secondly, be intentional about the language that you use so that people are seeing you, again, not just for today, but as an executive and where you can be in the future.

00:08:58

Leah Warwick: I love that answer because a lot of executive communication — or communication in general — is nonverbal, so it’s how you show up, how you’re dressed, how your body language is, how you are presenting yourself.

Ellen Bailey: Yes, it’s all of those things.

Leah Warwick: Yes, and it’s so important to be seen as someone, like you said, who has it all together, and that can mean different things depending on what kind of organization you’re in, but when people look to leaders — baseline, emotional feeling, they have it together. I trust that they know what they’re doing. A lot of that is not just what you say, it’s other elements as well.

Ellen Bailey: It absolutely is. I think what at least I got in the habit of doing is just showing up for the call or showing up for the meeting. I’ve worked virtually for almost — oh, my gosh, 14, 20 years. At Harvard Business Publishing, I was 100% virtual, and I was hybrid before that.

00:09:54

That whole virtual, on-the-camera thing is not new. So, yeah, you are intentional, to your point, about what’s in your background. You are intentional about all of those nonverbals. But I say that because you can absolutely still convey what you want to convey, even virtually. But what I never realized was the prep that I need to have before I do that. So I need to think through what’s on my background. I actually need to think through, thinking about who’s on that particular call or who’s in that meeting. What am I going to ask or state as everybody’s getting settled on the call? If I do bump into people in an office, if you work in an office, what am I going to be prepared for? What are some of those things, top of mind? So there’s a level of prep that goes into how you show up that I think people don’t necessarily realize, or I certainly didn’t until a little bit later in life.

00:10:45

Leah Warwick: Yes, there’s a lot that goes into it. Now you’re an expert, but I love that you’re an expert who is still a continuous learner. That is important because you’re never really done learning, at least in my experience. I think I might know a lot of things about a certain subject. And then some days I think, I have a lot more to learn.

Ellen Bailey: Right. I know. I am just a learner by trade, and I love it. And again, I can’t ever get my hands on enough audiobooks, reading, podcasts. I am a diehard podcast fan. All of the stuff because it never hurts to challenge your thinking and make sure that you are again — you’re continuing to grow so you can help the people around you grow as well.

Leah Warwick: Absolutely. And with so many innovations in this space and so many others, staying on top of what’s new, what’s relevant, what’s timely is so paramount. I’d like to get to a listener question that someone from our community submitted. They wrote: “How do you navigate perceptions of your work quality and professionalism? For example, having tattoos or being remote versus in-person work.” So this question seems to be implying that having tattoos may signal to some a lack of professionalism or that some might assume that a fully remote worker would exhibit a lower quality of work than someone in-office full-time.

00:12:07

Ellen Bailey: Sure.

Leah Warwick: So what would you suggest to combat these perceptions, as a leader in the workplace?

Ellen Bailey: Absolutely. Sure, my dog will bark when I’m on a call. Things happen. It goes back to making sure that you are prepared. I am going to state a little bit of some gender research here. This is a Harvard Kennedy School study from many years ago. Most white men are actually hired for potential. Most leaders in this country, most CEOs, are white men. That’s not a negative. It’s just a fact.

00:12:47

So then unconscious bias often kicks in, so then when you see other people that look like you, you’re like, if they make a mistake, you’re like, “Oh, but I see their potential.” As a result, they have like six to eight times to fail. White women get one to two based on their race, and Black men get one to two based on their gender. Black women get literally zero, which is why there are so few Black female CEOs. I say all of that because — keep that in mind — when you think about how you are showing up, regardless of if you have tattoo sleeves — love it. Great. I’m actually a tattoo person myself. That’s all great. But that goes back to then making sure that every single thing that comes out of your mouth is like super smart, crazy smart. We have to over-index on that piece. That doesn’t mean that you still can’t have fun. It doesn’t mean that you still can’t make a little bit of banter or anything like that, but make sure, when we get down to business, the questions that you ask and the statements you make demonstrate that you understand business at a strategic level.

00:13:54

For example, if you’re on with your CEO and they say, “Oh, hey, Ellen. How’s is going?” Instead of diving into, “Okay, well, I’ve got this call tomorrow and I’m planning for this,” it is something about the business, the strategy, the stock, so that they — not just about my daily grind, but they see that I am thinking beyond the moment, that I am a strategic thinker, and I understand business at a higher level.

So that’s the example that I often use. And it’s the same way in the hallway conversation. It’s the same way if you’re getting coffee and you bump into somebody. Make sure that what you say demonstrates your level of thinking.

00:14:31

Leah Warwick: Thank you so much for bringing that into the conversation because that is crucial to point out when we’re talking about we’re perceived. There are certain things that we can’t control.

Ellen Bailey: We just can’t control.

Leah Warwick: We can’t control our gender, our race, our level of ability in certain ways. So what can you control? And then also thinking about if you have unconscious biases, really examining those and how you’re perceiving someone based on an unconscious bias.

00:14:56

Ellen Bailey: That’s exactly right. My husband I joke because we call each other out all the time. I’m like, “Ooh, I don’t know…” And it’s like, “Oh, wait, you can’t think that way.” But we all do, just based on our experience. It’s how we handle it that’s most important.

Many, many years ago, I was at a networking event and you got to meet some of these executives. I was like, “Okay, I want to be an executive.” So I meet with this woman. It was almost like speed dating, but in networking. She’s like, “What do you do?” And I’m like, “Okay, well, I work at Harvard Business Publishing and…” She goes, “Stop talking.” She actually said that to me. She goes, “Stop talking.” She goes, “What do you do?” So I’m like panicking, but I’m like, how do I shorten that? And she comes back to me and literally she just looks at me and she goes, “Hi, I’m Ellen Bailey, and I make leaders Harvard smart.” And I was like…because I worked with leaders outside of Harvard, helping them develop.

00:15:51

So I’m like, “Oh, oh, my gosh.” And she goes, “You need something short so that we all know what you do and we can talk about you when you’re not in the room.” I say that because even the way that you say that, “I’m Ellen Bailey, and I make leaders Harvard smart,” when you bump into people in the hallway, when you are joining that Zoom call or that Teams call early, make sure even how you introduce yourself shows the level of work not only that you do, but that you can do. So regardless of if you’ve got sleeves, regardless of if you actually did wear the hoodie that day, making sure that the words that you say and how you say it and let your personality come through is really critical.

Leah Warwick: That is fantastic because we have sessions at this event on personal branding and some people are like, “What is that?” It’s how you show up in a verbal way, or how you show up on your LinkedIn profile, when you’re introducing yourself to people. That does help with confidence. It’s almost like a mantra as well, like, “This is who I am. This is what I’m good at. This is what I do.” It does not have to be a paragraph. It can be a simple sentence.

00:16:53

Ellen Bailey: Yes, for example, we had an all-day meeting. Before that, I went and looked at the stock price. I reviewed our FY26 strategy and playbook because I’m not sure who I’m going to bump into at this all-day meeting, but I want to make sure I’m prepared to have a conversation that shows that I can hang at that level, and that I should be at that level.

Leah Warwick: Walk on in. What’s stopping you?

Ellen Bailey: You’ve got it. That’s exactly right. Own it.

Leah Warwick: Yes, I love this. Gosh, this has been so fun. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Ellen.

Ellen Bailey: Absolutely.

Leah Warwick: Please tell our listeners where they can find you online?

Ellen Bailey: Yeah, absolutely. So you can certainly find me on LinkedIn under Ellen Bailey, but I also have a website. It’s ellen-bailey.com, so you can find me there. And you can always ping me if you want to have a chat.

Leah Warwick: Amazing. Thank you so much.

Ellen Bailey: Okay, it’s been great. Thanks.

[music playing]

Leah Warwick: Thank you for listening to “The Admin Edge,” produced by the American Society of Administrative Professionals, original music and audio editing by Warwick Productions, with audio and video production by 5Tool Productions. If you liked this podcast, please leave us a nice review, five stars, and subscribe. If you’d like to submit a listener question, you may do so on our website at ASAPorg.com/podcast.