Leah Warwick: Hi, everyone. I’m Leah Warwick, and you’re listening to “The Admin Edge.” For many administrative professionals, being the liaison and governance expert for a board, such as a board of directors, is essential and highly valued by organizations. Our guest today, Carissa Burgett, is a leading trainer who presented on this topic at the ASAP event, EA Ignite, this spring, in Louisville. We talk about having a strategic mindset for board alignment, and the changes we’re seeing in the admin profession as well. Okay, here is my interview with Carissa at EA Ignite.

00:00:44

Hi, I’m Leah Warwick, Senior Content Manager for the American Society of Administrative Professionals, and my guest today is Carissa Burgett, Chief of Staff at AFFT, and a trainer at this event, EA Ignite. Welcome to the podcast, Carissa.

Carissa Burgett: Hi, thanks. I’m so excited to be here today. Yeah, I’m the chief of staff here at AFFT, and it’s been a wonderful experience going into that role. But I’ve been training these last couple days on board governance here at the EA Ignite, and it’s been a wonderful experience, and I’ve really been able to lean into all of my board work that I’ve done in the different organizations I’ve worked in.

Leah Warwick: So great to have you here and speaking on that topic because that is something that, if you are involved in it, you think about it a lot. You think about how to be better at it. So we really value your expertise in speaking on the strategy of it all. It’s very helpful. Your masterclass is on board governance for admins who want to be seen as leaders and governance experts, not just support staff. What kind of knowledge or habits really set them apart? How can they leverage that leadership in the board space?

00:01:51

Carissa Burgett: There is so much opportunity for admins to lean into this profession and this part of the profession as an admin. A lot of us on our daily job are already helping our executives prepare for board meetings, are usually taking minutes in meetings, and so I really wanted to ensure that we can do some training on this, because people already have a lot of those skillsets. And the areas that I think are the most important is being able to be flexible. Sometimes it can be really easy as an admin to be rigid. We are box-checkers. We want to just kind of get those tasks done and move onto the next. We’re very task oriented. And when you think about board work and board leadership, your board is changing constantly. I worked for an organization where I ran a board of 64 directors, 9 committees, 6 subsidiaries. Over the five years I was there, I took over 500-600 sets of meetings minutes. I wanted to pull out my teeth every time I did a set of meeting minutes, so you can imagine how stressful that could be, managing that.

00:02:51

And I also ran the office of the president. And I will tell you that the things, the skills that have stayed with me that were very beneficial was the fact, one, being flexible, knowing every year you’re going to have a different governance structure or board directors, and maybe a new board chair. And the second piece of that is: knowledge is power. So I train a lot on the importance of learning how to read bylaws. I asked yesterday in our class, “Show of hands, who’s read their bylaws for the organization?” And not even half of the people in the room raised their hands. It may seem like a simple thing because they’re saying, “Well, that’s not really my job. I’m not a board director. I don’t need to know the ins and outs.” But, truly, there is so much information within those sets of bylaws that can beneficial to support the admin along their journey.

A good example of that is even understanding what a quorum is. In the bylaws, it’ll tell you how many you have to have to take a motion and to have it passed. And legally if you’re a board secretary or board administrator, you’re accountable for those things. Legally, the government can come after you if you don’t actually have a quorum for a meeting and you take a motion and it passes or it fails — but, either way, if you don’t have a quorum, it truly doesn’t count. And so it’s really important to understand the basic parts of your governance, and then to also really lean into being flexible and lots of communication between your board chair, between your CEO, between you and them, being a really good conduit to make sure that all of that board governance work is successful.

00:04:22

Leah Warwick: Absolutely. It’s important. And we have seen our members reach out and ask about board governance training or corporate governance training because the value-add is so strong, and the consequences of not having the training, of not knowing what you’re doing are also pretty weighty. So you talk a lot about the importance of good board administration. If an admin is good at board governance, could they also be good at being a board director?

Carissa Burgett: Yes. That’s a very interesting question, and a lot of people think that just understanding bylaws and motions, you can be a good director. Yes, that is very true. You need to have that knowledge, but that is more on the tactical side of things. And so another thing I train on is strategy. I always say the comment that really good, strong boards are staff-led, board-governed. What that means is letting staff runs the ins and outs of the day-to-day operations of an organization, of the board. And that can be really hard, coming in as an admin who, by the way, usually runs organizations, right? Let’s be honest here. We’re doing a lot of the running of the organization in the background, and so it can be hard sometimes to go into the board space and not be tactical.

00:05:36

Our first response when a board chair or a president says, “We need to come up with a new gameplan to move this organization forward,” [is] admins typically raise their hand and say, “Oh, yeah. I think you should try this, or try that.” And it’s not that that isn’t the right space or right job for a board director, but, really, strategy is where the focus is. So the strategy is the long-term goals of an organization. How do they move that organization forward and not get so stuck on the little details of the day-to-day operations of an organization, but really think about the longevity of an organization?

00:06:11

In my day work, I not only work at an organization called AFFT, but I also am the chair-elect for the IAAP Foundation Board. The reason why I mention that is because so much of that work is strategy. How are we going to continue to move the needle on this profession? And so one of my roles as a board director is to really think about strategy, and then also the fiduciary responsibility.

For a lot of admins, it’s hard to understand the financial aspects. Not all of us come in this as a chief financial officer and truly understand what a budget is and how to budget. And so I would say, yes, there is definitely the ability for a really good admin to become a board director, and there are so many amazing opportunities for that to happen and for that to flow naturally, but there are pieces that take a little bit of extra time and conditioning and knowledge and learning. [That] would be that area of strategy and, truthfully, money.

00:07:07

Understanding your fiduciary responsibility on a board, what your role is, and understanding the value of the organization and how to drive that forward. And so, yes, I think 100% admins deserve a seat at the table as a board director, but they do need to do a little bit of legwork to truly understand what that role looks like.

Leah Warwick: That resonates, especially because, often earlier in your career, in certain admin roles, you are very focused on the day to day. You’re focused on the tactical execution and you’re great at it, but you’re so right when you talk about strategy that you have to be thinking longer term. You have to be thinking about the finances. You cannot be strategic if you’re not thinking about the bigger picture. You do have to put on a bit of a different hat when you’re trying to be more strategic and thinking about things in more of a long-term view, and thinking about things outside of your very tactical, often, scope of work. So I really like that you brought that up.

00:07:59

Carissa Burgett: And if I could just add one last thing to that. Strategy is so important as an admin, and a lot of us don’t have a lot of experience there. One of the wonderful things about being a board director, or being close with a board, is watching these amazing executives who serve on these boards, or amazing admins who serve on these boards, and watching them lean into their strategic awareness, their knowledge, their mindset. Strategy truly does have a place at the day-to-day tasks that we do as admins, but it’s really learning how to turn that on, how to put on that strategy hat and use that. And so I would just end this part by saying, even if you’re not going to serve on a board, even if that’s not something you aspire to do, if you have an opportunity to work alongside someone who does serve on a board and you can get insight on how they do their work on a board, that can be really, really beneficial as an admin to have that additional insight, and help an admin put on that strategy hat to be successful in their day-to-day tasks.

00:09:00

Leah Warwick: Absolutely. And here at EA Ignite, it’s in a lot of our session titles. It’s in a lot of our content — strategy, strategy, strategy, and the value that that adds, laying in strategy, even into our day-to-day tasks. So how can you continue to add value to the business, to the executives you support, to the board, if you are working with a board? So, yes, this is really good information to be putting out there, and saying over and over again. I don’t think it can be stressed enough.

The last question I have for you: What do you consider your most effective tool in managing a board?

Carissa Burgett: I would say the most important thing in managing a board is communication. That would be communicating with your board chair, with the CEO, ensuring that those relationships are really strong, ensuring that your relationship with them, in kind of being this in-between person, is also strong, that you understand what’s going.

00:09:52

But part of that communication, as you think about tools and what you can use to help drive that — I really, truly believe, if you have a board of directors that’s more than ten people, you should have a board portal software to help manage that, help manage the documents that you’re giving to your board directors, to help manage your calendar invites so that you’re not doing double-duty and sending multiple calendar invites, [and] to help with somewhere to store all of your meeting meetings. All of that is so crucial, and it all comes back to this communication piece and ensures that your board directors have what they need to be successful.

So there are some really amazing platforms out there. I’ve talked a lot about different ones. There’s different platforms that focus in on 501(c)(3), so the nonprofit sector that are going to be a little cheaper priced. There’s other ones for the Fortune 500 companies. And so really understanding what platforms are out there — just a quick Google search or ChatGPT can help with that — and then having a call with their people and saying, “Hey, these are the pain points I’m having when it comes to communication. These are the pain points I’m having with ensuring that my board directors get from A to B. How can your platform leverage what I need to be leveraged to ensure success on this board?” And so I would say, a little secret is going to be that board portal software.

00:11:12

And then, lastly, on top of that, I would say that [what] goes hand in hand with communication is training. So you can’t expect a board director to go into a platform and know what to do, know how to add it to their calendar, know how to pull the materials, if they’re not trained. I’ve met, unfortunately, a lot of admins who say, “I don’t have time to train these people. I give them their credentials. They can go in and figure it out.” I don’t know about you, but I’ve handled a lot of CEOs in my day, and not many of them are willing to give the five minutes to log into a program to use it on their own. If they’re not trained, if it’s not easy, if they can’t get to a document within two clicks, they’re not going to do it.

00:11:48

And so, if you want to help yourself so you’re not doing as much hand-holding, a really easy way to do that is to use a platform where you train properly, you have the right materials available, and then you pass it to them, and then you put the responsibility onto those directors and say, “Look, everything is here for you within two clicks. Show up to the board meeting prepared.”

Leah Warwick: Yes, I like that, because often administrative professionals do feel like, I have no time. I’m overworked. I’m stressed. So much is put on your shoulders a lot of the time, but knowing what’s important — sometimes we talk about prioritizing the important over the urgent and thinking about, what’s most important here? Again, it goes back to strategy. It goes back to strategy. It goes back to long-term goals of the organization and focusing on: How can we really make an impact here? It’s important.

Carissa Burgett: And doing the legwork — if you do the legwork in the frontend and get the program up and running, utilizing the platform, getting a real, solid communication plan. Whether it’s with a platform or not, making sure your CEO and your board chair and you are all in alignment of what type of communication needs to go out and what you’re expecting of these directors.

00:12:54

All of that legwork on the frontend will make it so much easier as you go forward in your position. They’re going to respect you more and you’re going to get what you need from them. Because let me tell you, after managing 65 board directors at a time, it’s like herding cats. The more that I could do on the frontend to really prepare them and give them all of the tools that they needed really helped me on the backend to not be running around, crazy, trying to fix all of the problems, because there really weren’t problems to fix at that point. I did the legwork and I made it work. You always have a one-off here or there, but really putting in that extra time and dedication to ensure that you have a really good communication plan is key.

Leah Warwick: Yes. This is for your sanity and your efficiency, and to help them as well, but it helps you, too, to have these processes and procedures in place. And we have a listener question I’d like to share with you, submitted by one of our community members. They write: “What are the key habits or systems that help an EA support a board effectively, especially when also supporting the CEO and managing complex executive operations?”

00:14:03

Carissa Burgett: That’s a great question. I talked a little bit about this when it comes to some of the things we’ve talked about before with communication, but I would also say time management is going to be important. I know we all do that. I know we all try really hard to prioritize our time and all of that, and it can get a little frustrating when you have a lot of competing priorities.

But I would say to you, when we go back to that communication piece, is: Have a conversation with your executive and saying, “How important is our board?” And I guarantee you, if they’re paying his paycheck, he’s going to say, “pretty important,” right? If that’s the case, you need to figure out how you’re going to prioritize that, along with prioritizing your executive’s needs.

00:14:47

I had a really great relationship with one of my executives, and he knew that two weeks before the board meeting I was just swamped. I was working 60-hour weeks trying to get everything prepared for these big, grand meetings and events and dinners. And so we had a deal. The deal was he wouldn’t ask me to do anything unless it was completely urgent, and for the two weeks leading up he would manage a lot of things on his own, which I know is hard — believe it or not, there are executives who can manage things on their own.

But we had this kind of understanding because he knew that my priority had to be focused on the board work, and that I couldn’t do that successfully if I was also managing him, right? Now, I knew the day I came back in the office after the board meeting I would have 60 emails in my inbox from him, but I will say that that was kind of our give and take. He would give me the space to do the work that I needed to do because he understood how important that time was. And he made the choice. I asked him: “What is the priority here?” And so putting it in your executive’s wheelhouse to make the call on that is the easier way to hold them responsible for it.

00:15:52

It’s not easy. It’s easier. There is still a lot of work that has to be done there. So I would just say that the more you can do in that time management space and get agreeance among your board chair, amongst your executive and yourself on what the priorities truly are, what the frequency is, how often are you going to be needed? Is it all going to be last minute? Can you do any prep in advance? Those things are really going to help in your time management so that you can still live your life, do your day-to-day job, if you have jobs beyond managing a board, and then still be able to do the other part well.

Leah Warwick: Yes. And it sounds like being a direct communicator really helps with that, too. We often get a lot of questions from our community, [like]: How do I do this? How do I say this? It’s like, you have to have the confidence, but sometimes the mindset shift, to have these kinds of direct conversations with executives you support, with board members, and really have the clarity because it’s needed — clear is kind.

00:16:56

Carissa Burgett: I 100% agree. I’ll just comment that I had this board director for a couple of years that just scared me so much. Just very intimidating, always got my words in a jumble when I tried to talk to him. And my husband — who is, by the way, not scared of anything. He’s ex-military, like nothing phases him at this stage of life, after serving for 11 years. But he said to me one time, he said, “You do know that they put their pants on the same way you do?” And it’s such a simple thing, but, I swear, the next time I saw him, I pictured him putting on his pants and thought to myself, wow, one leg at a time, right? He’s not that scary.

00:17:36

And at the end of the day, what is the worst thing that’s going to happen to me by being more direct? And if it means getting fired — and I know this is not for everybody — then I don’t want to work there. That was how I chose to look at it. It doesn’t mean that’s for everybody, but that’s how I chose to look at it. And I thought to myself, how am I going to survive the next X amount of years with this person if I’m scared to death of them, if I don’t know how to communicate with them, if I don’t know what they want?

00:18:01

And so even though they were very difficult, and it never got a lot easier, I did get over the fact that they were that scary, and realized that they’re just a person. They put on their pants the same way I am. And it took me a really long time to get to that point, but, once I did, I started being able to be ask harder questions, and I didn’t care as much about the response because I knew that we had to have an answer. And no matter what that answer was, it was the only way we were going to be successful was to know it and then to be able to go after it, right? Because it doesn’t help if you’re just running in circles around somebody.

So that’s kind of been my approach the last couple of years: We’re all humans, and we have to make this work. They’re expecting you to be successful at this. If you need their help in making this be a success, communication is going to be very important to make that happen.

Leah Warwick: Yes. And here at EA Ignite and [with] all the great work you do — I’m so glad you’re here talking about this — it’s very clear that things are changing. We are seeing more and more administrative professionals stand up and say, “I’m not going to be in the background anymore, scared, not wanting to speak up. I’m a leader in this situation. I’m a strategic business partner in the situation that we have here. My voice matters. And there’s ways I can still learn and grow.”

00:19:18

So it’s so wonderful to see people at this event continuously learning, and sometimes that continuous learning is just as simple as communication skills, like you’re never done learning how to be a better communicator to reach a common goal.

Carissa Burgett: And I’ve met with a lot of people while I’ve been here, and it’s been an amazing conference. I will just say that everyone I’ve met with has been great, and the ones that are kind of not sure where they want to go or where they need to be, a lot of it has to do with confidence and growing that confidence to be able to then have those conversations. I hear you when you say that there’s a lot of us growing in that way, and I’m so proud to be part of this profession and see that growth because, at the end of the day, no one’s moving the needle on this profession but the admins, and then the wonderful organizations, like EA Ignite, ASAP, that are putting in the work and trying to support these admins. That’s how we move the needle on this profession, together — and I hate to say it, without the executive.

00:20:19

At the end of the day, truly, we’re in charge of our own careers, you know? And so how do we move the needle on this profession? How we move the needle for each individual really takes the effort of the individual themselves and then wonderful organizations that can offer that additional learning and support.

Leah Warwick: I couldn’t agree more. It’s very rewarding to see the advocacy working and seeing that we still have a long way to go, but we are changing the profession, and it’s folks like you that really inspire me as well. So it’s been great talking to you about all of this. I’m sure we could go on all day. So thank you so much for joining us. Where can our listeners find you online?

00:21:00

Carissa Burgett: So I’m on LinkedIn. You can find me at Carissa Burgett. Just please follow me. I do a blog post every month that is all about admins of influence, and it talks about admins from history and their wonderful careers, or sometimes not great careers because of one reason or another. So I try to put a lot of thought into those, so please connect with me there. If you have questions about board governance or anything in between, I’d be very happy to respond.

Leah Warwick: Yes. And you should take Carissa up on that. She is an expert in this space. We just couldn’t be more grateful to have you here. Thank you.

Carissa Burgett: Yeah, thank you.

[music playing]

Leah Warwick: Thank you for listening to “The Admin Edge,” produced by the American Society of Administrative Professionals, original music and audio editing by Warwick Productions, with audio and video production by 5Tool Productions. If you liked this podcast, please leave us a nice review, five stars, and subscribe. If you’d like to submit a listener question, you may do so on our website at ASAPorg.com/podcast.