Leah Warwick: Hi, everyone. I’m Leah Warwick, and you’re listening to The Admin Edge. This episode was recorded at the Administrative Professionals Conference 2025, in Seattle, with host Debra Coleman, and guest Ayanna Castro, an APC trainer and expert on administrative leadership. So, I hope you enjoy this conversation on what it takes to build an administrative team, with Ayanna and Deb from the show floor at APC.

Debra Coleman: Well, welcome to The Admin Edge podcast. I’m Deb Coleman, Owner of The Seat Upstairs, and joining me this afternoon is the lovely Ms. Ayanna Castro, Founder and Chief Maven at Ayanna Castro Consulting and creator of Work Your Package, and a trainer here at APC Seattle. So, thank you, Ayanna.

00:00:58

Ayanna Castro: Thank you so much for the intro and the welcome. I’m happy to be here. I really am. I really, really am.

Debra Coleman: Well, we are thrilled because this is going to be a fantastic conversation, I think, around how have to build a strong admin team. You know, honestly, in different group settings, I have heard several times this week so far, this past several days, about admin teams, about trying to start one or about how they started and then sort of fizzled, and attendees are wondering: How do I keep it going? I’m happy to dive into this conversation. Much needed. Highly relevant right now.

Ayanna Castro: Yes, very much so. It was actually a question in my first session.

Debra Coleman: Was it?

Ayanna Castro: Yes.

Debra Coleman: Oh, boy. Well, that’s it. So, Ms. Ayanna, your approach balances guidance and support with hard truths. What’s one hard truth you consistently have to share with admin professionals about what it really takes to build and lead a cohesive team?

00:01:58

Ayanna Castro: Well, I can tell you the hard truth is, is that it is not a popularity contest. If you are still trying to be liked more than respected, your job can get increasingly harder with the people-pleasing and the wanting to do right and wanting to take on and, “Oh, yeah, sure. I can do that. Yes, I can do that.” But what are you doing? What impact are you causing by taking on so much? So, instead of having that conversation, that heart-to-heart conversation, that constructive conflict, you take on more.

You have to be able to set your boundaries. Boundaries doesn’t mean no; it means reframing it. So, your manager comes to you and says, “Hey, we have this great project. I want you to lead it.” “Thank you so much. I really appreciate your confidence in me. Can we have a discussion about the other priorities that I currently have in line? Because I don’t want to do this particular project a disservice because I have so much on my plate. I’m not saying no. I’d just like you to be able to assist me with prioritizing.”

00:03:05

That really helps teams move forward because now they’re not feeling like everything is on them, all of the responsibility is on them. They have a voice in actually how to get things done. So, they have to get out of this fear of being disliked or being seen as difficult because they asked the question.

Debra Coleman: Simply because they ask a question.

Ayanna Castro: Yes.

Debra Coleman: I think that is an eternal struggle for administrative support professionals of wanting to be liked, because it’s in our innate nature to be that people-pleaser. For you to suggest we go against that, I’m sure that’s a little like, “I want to get there, but…”

Ayanna Castro: But you have to start small, right? You don’t take the big swing at the big—you don’t wait until a pivotal meeting, or you don’t wait until… You do it incrementally, every single day, in increments, little things, just asking the questions.

00:04:00

I gave the example today, during my earliest session on administrative team building, [of] asking why five times. Ask why. The report is—we need to find a way to streamline this report. Why? Because we’re consistently behind schedule with producing and distribution. Why? Because we really don’t know who is supposed to be approving this. Why? Because we really don’t even know what the report is for, really. Why? Because the person who originally gave us the report is no longer with the organization. Then why are we doing this report? [laughter] You know what I mean? Why are we doing it?

So, it’s okay to ask the healthy question of why. It’s not being insubordinate. It’s just making sure that you get clarity so that you can move with purpose and intention.

00:04:50

Debra Coleman: Exactly. You’ve kind of got to pull on that inner two-year-old. Well, why? Why? Why?

Ayanna Castro: Yes, and it’s okay.

Debra Coleman: Yeah, and as a bonus, you appear very strategic because look, in that scenario, you just got to the heart of the problem, and you look like a rockstar.

Ayanna Castro: Exactly. And that’s the point.

Debra Coleman: End of interview—that’s it. [laughter] Well, Ayanna, you mentioned that life-witness wisdom—we’ll talk a little bit about that here—creates lasting change, while eyewitness wisdom is just surface level. Fascinating. When it comes to building administrative teams, however, what’s an example of a life-witness wisdom that really transforms how teams can work?

Ayanna Castro: So, life-witness wisdom—I’ll do it in reverse. Eyewitness wisdom is “I heard. I saw. I read.” Life-witness wisdom is “I lived this. I experienced this. I encountered this. I was able to overcome this.

00:05:55

So, life-witness wisdom is really boiled down to the mantra “I’m telling you what I know and not what I heard.” So, when you’ve lived in the trenches and you’ve done the work, it’s a lot easier to be really true and authentic to who you are because you know what you know to be true because you’ve experienced it.

I think, a lot of times, what happens is that we don’t advocate for ourselves. But when admins advocate for themselves, there’s a shift because we know what it takes to get the job done. And again, we’ve moved way beyond getting coffee and managing a calendar. There are administrative professionals right now who are literally carrying the success of the entire team on their back.

Debra Coleman: Yes.

00:06:47

Ayanna Castro: I met a young lady earlier this week who supports 46 people.

Debra Coleman: Come on.

Ayanna Castro: 46. Right.

Debra Coleman: That’s 45 too many.

Ayanna Castro: Okay? So, when you have people like that—I mean, absolute rockstar, right? She has some life-witness wisdom that no one can take from her, and she needs to be extra super-duper confident in that. And also being able to respect your bandwidth. Because you have this lived-in wisdom, you already know when you’re pushed to the edge. Why would add more? Which takes me back to that previous answer. Have that hard conversation and say, “I would love to and I appreciate your faith in me. However, in order for me to continue to operate in the way that you expect and I expect, I need to have an honest conversation with you about my current workload.”

Debra Coleman: That’s right. And having that conversation, or looking at it from that type of witness mindset, does not equate to weakness.

00:06:47

Ayanna Castro: Absolutely not. It is a badge of honor and strength. It is a badge of honor and strength. I think about the times when I was really deep in the trenches of an admin. My career has moved to the point now where I’m now the employee engagement program manager and I sit in HR. I’m responsible for the appreciation, recognition, and philanthropic efforts for 1,800 employees. I work for the eight-largest water utility in the country. It is a huge responsibility. I don’t have a team. I’m me of me, right?

But what I know to be true, I know when my bandwidth is about at the edge, so I’ve built these amazing employee teams that work with me throughout the year. They don’t report directly to me. Some of them, they’re not even in HR, but they work with me because they believe in the mission, they believe in the vision, and they have gotten beyond just liking me. They respect me. And it’s because I walk in the door with that life-witness wisdom, and I’m not asking them to do anything that I have not done or am not willing to do.

00:09:03

Debra Coleman: Right, and I’m sure they know that and they pick up on that, which aids in the respect factor, yeah.

Ayanna Castro: Exactly, yeah.

Debra Coleman: Great advice.

Ayanna Castro: Thank you.

Debra Coleman: Fantastic. Can you come to work with me? [laughter]

Ayanna Castro: I would love to come work with you.

Debra Coleman: Oh, Ms. Ayanna, this is great. [laughter] You’re the go-to person for those who have lost clarity on their goals, which absolutely plagues us all. For an admin professional, however, who’s been tasked with building or strengthening their team, but doesn’t really know where to start, where do I even begin to do that work? What’s maybe one question they should ask themselves first? Because that’s a huge undertaking, I would imagine—a commitment, I should say.

00:09:43

Ayanna Castro: I had to think about that question for a little bit. I had to redo it and think about it.

Debra Coleman: I’m sure.

Ayanna Castro: You have to ask yourself: What kind of team culture do I want to be known for?

Debra Coleman: Oh, a little legacy.

Ayanna Castro: Yes, and I shared that a little bit when I was at Innovation Theater. You are building your legacy—not the company’s legacy, your legacy. So, not being known for what your boss wants, not what’s trending, what does your team want to feel? What does it want to say? What does it want to embody when it shows up?

So, my team at work, they named themselves Hydro Squad because we work for the water company. So, they named themselves Hydro Squad. When Hydro Squad shows up, everyone in the organization knows we are there to do the work. We are there to support each other. We are there to support the team members. We are here to ensure that our engagement is strategic and purposeful and intentional.

00:10:57

We don’t do things willy-nilly. There’s been plans in place, like we really take the time to get into it. So, when you think of all of that, that’s when you bring your values, your leadership style. My leadership style is I’m very open. I’m very vulnerable. I tell my team when I’m not having a good day. I tell ’em when I don’t have it. I even tell them when I want to quit. [laughter] And I’m like, “Listen, I’m not doing this event. I don’t want to do it.” They’re like, “Ayanna, the event’s tomorrow.” And I’m like, “Okay, fine. Fine, all right. Fine, I’ll do it.”

But the clarity starts with the vision, not the task. Clarity starts with the vision, not the task. Don’t think about all the things that the team has to do. Think about the vision. Think about that. Have the clarity first, and everything else will fall in alignment with that.

00:11:52

Debra Coleman: Wow, that’s powerful. And can I say, you need to swag that. [laughter] Honestly, that’s good.

Ayanna Castro: Clarity starts with vision, no task.

Debra Coleman: Thank you, exactly. A little louder for those in the back. That is perfect, actually, and a great answer to that because I’m sure that’s very legit, like I want to start this. Why am I starting this? Who am I starting it for?

Ayanna Castro: Yeah. And I mean, even when I think about—even this, like the speaking, that was not on the bingo card of life. It was not, right? I am an introvert by nature, but I went through some things. I had some life experiences that perpetuated into me writing a book, and then I had a “yes, and” conversation. The “yes, and” conversation was “you should have a conference.” I had no intention of becoming a speaker. At my very first conference, I talked for a total of 15 minutes; that was it. I had a panel discussion and I let someone else facilitate the panel. I didn’t want to speak.

00:12:57

Debra Coleman: My goodness.

Ayanna Castro: I did not. But lo and behold, here I am, and it’s because I had the vision. What’s the vision? The vision is that anyone and everyone that comes in contact with me, whether it’s like this, whether they’re hearing me on a podcast, whether they’ve come to a conference, my goal is to ensure that they leave from me imparted with some wisdom that they did not originally have, and they feel better when they leave.

I want them better when they leave my presence. How do I do that? I can do that through speaking. I can do that through keynotes and workshops and teaching and working with companies who want to do better by their people. But this was not on the bingo card. [laughs]

Debra Coleman: But you turned that into being on the bingo card now.

Ayanna Castro: Yes, absolutely.

Debra Coleman: That’s fantastic.

Ayanna Castro: Yeah, and I enjoy it.

Debra Coleman: Well, we selfishly reap the benefits of that pivot, so thank you for that.

Ayanna Castro: You’re very welcome. [laughter]

Debra Coleman: Ms. Ayanna, do you have time for a quick listener question?

Ayanna Castro: I do.

00:13:58

Debra Coleman: Okay, all right. We have a listener who submitted a question: How do I manage my team without micromanaging them? I don’t know what they are doing each day, so how do I manage them without micromanaging them?

Ayanna Castro: Micromanagement is a symptom of unclear expectations. When you start to micromanage, it’s because you’re not clear. You haven’t been clear with the expectation. Then there’s a lack of trust. I talked about that during the administrative team-building session that I did, the [unintelligible] model of high-performing teams. Trust is at the bottom for a reason. Trust is the foundation, so you need to trust that the team knows what they need to do. But in order to trust that, have you been clear with your expectation? Because everyone doesn’t operate the same way, right?

00:14:51

I need minimal supervision. Every manager that I’ve had says I’m one of the easiest people to ever have on their team. I don’t need supervision. I need permission and money. That’s it. Because in order for me to do what it is that I need to do, I need permission to move forward and then I need to money to fund what I need to do. I just need permission and money, right?

Debra Coleman: It makes sense.

Ayanna Castro: And if I run into a roadblock, I’m smart enough and strategic enough to say, “I need you to step in.” So, micromanaging, you have to make sure that you’re communicating priorities and expected outcomes. Then, when it comes to the goal setting, a shift from task to transformation. So, instead of the process, it’s identify one process improvement that saves time or reduces errors. You shift from the task to the process. That helps them have buy-in, and then they no longer feel micromanaged because they feel like they are part of the process. They’re able to give feedback on the process because they’re the ones who are doing it. Who better to tell you whether or not it’s working than the end user? So, that’s how you get away from that.

00:16:00

Debra Coleman: I like that. I would love to follow that up with a question. That was a wonderful guidance and advice for those who are managing a team, in terms of how do I not micromanage them. Can we flip that for a second and flip it to the team member? If you do not desire to be micromanaged, how do you show up so you don’t? Like flip it the other way. What’s the message to the team member in that same scenario?

Ayanna Castro: The message to the team member is: Come to the table showing that you already have ownership and prove—not even prove, but demonstrate and document the innovation that you’ve had for this process, because you can’t refute data. People try to argue with it, but it’s, why?

00:16:50

So, if you know that your manager is coming to you and they’re asking you, “Well, why haven’t you done the 20 reports?” “Well, let me show you. Let me show you how long each report takes. Let me show you the details that’s required, the steps that are required, the people who are required to be on this report. Because now that we identified what the report actually is for, that quarterly report that we’re always late for, now that we’ve identified why we need this report, let me show you the steps that are required to produce this report.”

Debra Coleman: Right.

Ayanna Castro: So, you have to show your worth. You have to show it. And sometimes you feel like, “You should know.” They don’t. Offices do not come with common-sense clarity and compassion. It just doesn’t. There are certain things that you don’t and sometimes you’ve got to manage up. Managing up is one of the greatest skills any administrative professional can have. When you can manage up, when you can get your manager under control, so to speak, you know you’ve done it correctly when other managers come to you to say, “Can you talk to your person? Can you straighten this out?” Okay.

Debra Coleman: You’re doing something right.

00:18:00

Ayanna Castro: You’re doing something right, yeah.

Debra Coleman: Thank you for that. I know that was a little off script, but I was just curious what you would feel—yeah, thank you for that guidance because that’s where many of us fall, and so I was wondering what your thought was on that.

Ayanna Castro: Absolutely.

Debra Coleman: And thank you for answering our listener’s question. I’m sure they’re very appreciative of that as well.

Ayanna Castro: I hope it is helpful.

Debra Coleman: Absolutely. That’s why we invited you on. We needed some clarity, Ayanna, to help guide us through this tunnel of administrative teams. Well, if anyone listening wants to learn more about you and what you offer and just get more of this wonderful guidance, where can we find you?

Ayanna Castro: You can find me on my website, ayannacastro.com, and you can also find me on LinkedIn underneath Ayanna Castro. I have some fun stuff on Instagram, too. I’m Ayanna Castro on Instagram, too.

Debra Coleman: Are you?

Ayanna Castro: Yes, I post fun stuff there.

Debra Coleman: That’s what it’s for, really.

Ayanna Castro: It’s for the fun stuff, but, yeah, you can find me. I’m all over. As my daughter said, “You can Google my mom.” [laughs]

Debra Coleman: See? You can. Absolutely. There you go.

Ayanna Castro: There’s nothing better than having a teenage daughter, I’m telling you. They’re your hype woman.

Debra Coleman: I was about to say that.

00:19:02

Ayanna Castro: They are your hype woman. She loves it.

Debra Coleman: If you’ve got that generation’s buy-in, you’re already winning.

Ayanna Castro: Absolutely. I have an 18- and a 20-year-old, so both of them think it’s pretty darn cool that I’m here, in Seattle. They think it’s awesome. They already having all their tchotchkes already from the last time I was here, so they’re not looking for souvenirs, but the fact that their mom is out here and teaching and doing the things, it’s amazing. And I do a lot of what I do to show them what’s possible, because they can’t do what they don’t see.

Debra Coleman: That’s right. Incredible role model. Incredible.

Ayanna Castro: Thank you.

00:19:37

Debra Coleman: Thank you, Ms. Ayanna. This has been a joy. I appreciate you.

Ayanna Castro: Thank you so much for having me. Appreciate it.

[music playing]

Leah Warwick: Thank you for listening to The Admin Edge, produced by the American Society of Administrative Professionals, original music and audio editing by Warwick Productions, with audio and video production by 5Tool Productions. If you liked this podcast, please leave us a nice review, five stars, and subscribe. If you’d like to submit a listener question, you may do so on our website at ASAPorg.com/podcast.