[00:00] LEAH WARWICK: Hi everyone, I’m Leah Warwick and you’re listening to the Admin Edge. At the American Society of Administrative Professionals, or ASAP for short, we produce online and in-person training, including the in-person conference EA Ignite. At our most recent event in Nashville, I sat down with C-suite EA, Naomi Birman, about what an in-sync and strategic partnership with executives really looks like today, from her perspective. Let’s dive in. Hi, I’m Leah Warwick, Senior Content Manager for the American Society of Administrative Professionals. My guest today is Naomi Birman, Executive Assistant at Wrap Book and a facilitator at this event, EA Ignite. Welcome to the podcast.

[00:49] NAOMI BIRMAN: Thank you, I’m so glad to be here, Leah.

[00:53] LEAH WARWICK: It’s so great to see you in person after talking online. This is such a great event. I’m so happy that you’re here, and I really want to get into a very important topic with you, which is strengthening strategic partnerships. I think that’s the reason a lot of people are here. They want a stronger partnership with their executive, so obviously being a strategic business partner to an executive, especially a C-suite exec as an EA, is no small feat. I have a few scenarios in mind that I’d love to get your take on, so first, what would you recommend for establishing a strategic partnership when it’s a new EA working with an executive who has had many EA’s before?

[01:21] NAOMI BIRMAN: You know, that’s an interesting situation because you need to go into it, understand the emotional context that you’re in. Maybe they had a beloved EA for five, ten, fifteen years. It’s now, you know, for whatever reason, retired, moved on, you know, had a baby. Who knows? But, you know, they’re no longer there and they’re a little sad, a little frustrated. You know, they’re happy for that EA, but now you are stepping into this role and you’re excited. But, you know, you have to understand that what you’re stepping into, you know, maybe their previous EA was not trustworthy, maybe they were fired, you know, now you’re having to lean into that and build that trust back. Or you could be like a company I’ve been at where they moved VPs around routinely to build a bench, which I understood, but you weren’t allowed to travel with them into their new role. For seven years, I reported to six different leaders for various reasons. Some of them weren’t because of bench-moving. It was people leaving the company, but, you know, you have to learn what you’re stepping into and kind of understand how they’ve worked before.

[02:33] NAOMI BERMAN: You don’t want to be a bulldozer and come in and change everything. You want to understand how are you working? How do you like to work? How do you like to communicate and then start making recommendations and okay, okay, I see this little gap. Maybe we can make this better before you just come in and rip everything apart that maybe was actually working for them before, and maybe you can learn how to work that way too.

[03:05] LEAH WARWICK: Yes, that really hits because a lot of our members ask us, like, can you give me like a standard onboarding template for an executive? It’s like sure, but every executive is different. So the standard onboarding, there’s a ton out there, by the way, if you look online or there’s a ton out there, that might be great for a certain kind of exec, but another exec is like, no, I like my information this way. So the first step really is to ask them. Ask, you know, they likely know how they like to work. If they’ve had a lot of EAs before, they know how they like to work. They know how they like to communicate, and I think hopefully they also respect that you’re not every EA they’ve already had and that you’re going to come in with your own methods. And those are some of the questions you can actually ask in the interview process. If you’re able to go through an interview process as opposed to an org change where maybe you’re slid into a certain role.

[03:54] LEAH WARWICK: But kind of just asking questions, how have you worked before, and then, you know, starting to see, okay, this isn’t really working for me. Would you mind trying this, you know, can be a great way to start, you know, shifting something that has worked for them previously. And starts off on a good foot of saying, like, oh, well, you tell, it’s not just you tell me what you want. It’s like we’re, we’re going to start the partnership. Let’s do this together. We’re going to figure it out. And if you go in with that positive outlook, they’re going to feel secure and you being able to take care of them as well.

[04:31] NAOMI BIRMAN: Yes, yes. That’s really important, especially for trust, which we’ll get into because another scenario I’m thinking of is what would you recommend for establishing a strategic partnership when it’s an experienced EA who is working with someone who is new to being executive? We hear this a lot. I’ve done this several times. I think you have to be ready for a lot of trial and error. They probably have not thought about how they like to work and how they think and how do I think of my own tasks and how do I stay organized? So you’re going to have to guide them through that. You’re going to have to guide them through, okay, we need to set up a process. How do you want to do this?

[05:07] NAOMI BIRMAN: You know, I recently was working with the CEO at a former, my last company and his previous EA had been with them for less than a year and it didn’t work out, which is why I came on board. And he gave me access to his Asana board and it, I mean, it was a mess. And so, you know, after a few days, we actually had a one-to-one and I said, okay, let’s talk about your Asana and he just started laughing. And I said, yeah, it doesn’t look like it’s working. You want to use Asana? Is this what, has this worked for you before? And he said, yeah, I want to use it. This system didn’t work, though. And I said, okay, let’s rip it apart. Let’s start a new board and figure out a new system.

[05:52] NAOMI BIRMAN: It took a lot of iterations to figure out, okay, now we have a rhythm that’s working for both of us. We created, you know, different boards, different channels, different sections. So he can easily move things around, easily delegate things to me once he had taken it from maybe, you know, one to five. I could then take it to ten, but we had ways to kind of build that up, but it didn’t happen overnight. It took months of us iterating and saying, okay, this sort of works, but maybe we can adapt it a little so that it works better for both of us.

[06:04] NAOMI BIRMAN: Another one is I had worked with the leader for just a few months and I’d worked with her before in a different role. You know, we’d figure out a system that worked. We were both in office full time. She would come to my desk. I would go to her office. Sometimes I’d meet her at the end of a meeting and walk her to her next meeting to get answers and it was great. It was clicking. But then COVID hit and we went to remote full time and we quickly realized all of our methods of communication were no longer going to work.

[06:27] NAOMI BIRMAN: And we had to find a new way to communicate, a new way to track our mutual to-dos. And again, after a lot of iteration, we realized what we need to do is meet first thing in the morning three days a week. We would save all of our to-dos for then unless it was urgent. And then we would Slack each other or text message each other. But we’d save everything for then. And that wouldn’t work for other relationships. Other executives wouldn’t want to do that. For us, that’s what we found that worked well for both of us and it felt good. So I think it’s also that iteration until it feels good.

[06:54] LEAH WARWICK: Yes. And giving it some time too, that first year, there’s going to be ups and downs. You know, I really believe that it takes at least six months or more until it really starts to feel right. You’ve developed patterns of communication, patterns of how you two work together and how you delegate tasks to one another. Sometimes I need to take things from zero to five. You take it the rest of the way. Sometimes it’s the other way around. And so it’s just knowing that it’s going to take time and you’ve got to live in that slight discomfort for a while.

[07:21] LEAH WARWICK: And to remind them, hey, we’re going to figure this out because you got their back, they got your back. And together, you’re going to find a kind of rhythm that feels really good. And if they’re willing to be with you in that process, you’re going to be in for them too.

[07:43] NAOMI BIRMAN: Yes. Yes. That’s so true and so good to keep in mind. I think a lot of times EAs have to do everything perfect and it’s like, you got to live in the uncomfortable. You got to live in the mess. Yeah. You know, I am not perfect. I make mistakes. I also then will own up to it. Hey, I made this mistake. I’m going to move on. You’re going to move on and it’s going to be fine. It’s, you know, it’s when you are scared of the mistake. I want to hide the mistake. But to keep talking about the mistake, you know, I just say, hey, I did X, Y and Z. This is how it’s not going to happen again. And then I don’t bring it up again.

[08:18] LEAH WARWICK: Yeah. Because I’m a human. I’m going to make a mistake. You’re going to make a mistake. We just have to move on.

[08:23] NAOMI BIRMAN: Right. And executives make mistakes all the time. And they do what you’re talking about. They’ll own it. I mean, for the most part. Not all executives, but a lot of executives will. They will own it and then they will quickly move on and not dwell on it.

[08:33] LEAH WARWICK: So I would love to know from you, how have you built trust with executives over the years? And what do you find works well for sinking in that way?

[08:40] NAOMI BIRMAN: You know, it’s, I’m in a new role. I’ve been there for about five weeks and I’m building that trust right now. So one of the things I’m doing is when they, you know, asked me to do X, Y and Z, once I’ve completed it, I send them a Slack that just starts with FYI only. So they know this is not urgent. And I just tell them, you know, hey, this, this is done. This is scheduled for this day and time. I’m still working on, you know, this one process. And I just kind of give them an update every few days on, you know, where I am in various things so that they know it’s still on my plate.

[09:12] NAOMI BIRMAN: You know, one of my leaders is so busy. I only meet with her ad hoc because she just has so much going on that that way, you know, I, it’s only for the most urgent things. You know, one of them was we’re planning an event actually here in Nashville in a few weeks. And I sent her a little deck on hotel choices that I, it had been narrowed down here at the top three. Here are the pros and cons to each. Here’s the approximate pricing of how I think it’s going to fall out and she, then we can talk about it so that we’re not spending time on a call. And she said she’d never seen something that clear and crisp before and it helped make the decision super easy. But to me, it was a how I needed to process the information, but two, then she could process it without me being on a call and having to talk her through it.

[09:42] LEAH WARWICK: Hmm. So letting them know like it’s, it’s been done. It’s been done. No worries. Or here’s where I am in it. I think it’s also making recommendations. I see this gap, would you mind if I tried to create a process for it? Or, you know, hey, I, I did this in a previous job where I did, you know, I created a process that I think might work for this team in this way, do you mind if I work with your director on that? You know, so it’s, it’s making suggestions. They don’t know what you know. They don’t know what you’ve done before. So it’s sometimes just kind of leaning into that communication leading into the strategies that they can say, oh, like she actually knows what she’s doing. She’s been there before it, it starts to build that trust because we have such a weird job. It’s very unique.

[10:27] NAOMI BIRMAN: It’s such a weird job. There has to be trust. You’re getting their passport information and credit card information. If you wanted, you could run away to Argentina with a lot of money. But we choose not to because we like this job, but that truck, that weird trust has to be there. But then there’s a secondary trust that comes over time.

[10:54] LEAH WARWICK: Yes. I mean, two adjectives immediately come to mind that we talk about all the time to the point where they start to seem buzz wordy in this profession, but only because of the truth of them, which is being proactive and being strategic. So what you described is both. And also, I think another one I’ll throw in there that’s not used as much collaborative because that’s what a partnership is. It’s getting buy-in on things. So you’re not only just, because I think sometimes if you’re proactive, but then don’t ask them, then they can be like, no, why did you do that? Why did you go down? So sometimes, you know, I’ll be proactive in that. I’ll, I’ll do a demo of something. And I’ll draft something, but I’m not going to go down the rabbit hole until I’ve showed it to them. And they say, yeah, this is great. Continue on. And sometimes they say, oh, I don’t really need that. OK, I only spent 30 minutes. No big deal.

[11:36] NAOMI BIRMAN: Yeah. Yeah. Getting making sure that they’re, they’re clued in. What’s going on? Clued in. And also just, you know, making sure you’re starting to build those relationships with their directs, that you’re there for them to, you know, you can’t be their full time EA, but you know, you’re there for them to, you want to help the team. You want to understand what’s happening. And that can also help, you know, I’ve asked, you know, my leaders directs, how do you guys communicate now and could it be better? How can I help facilitate more of that, you know, what balls do you see slipping through? And where can I fit in to help that, you know, be reduced in the future?

[11:57] LEAH WARWICK: Oh, I love that. That’s so good. And that could be a whole other podcast episode, like the directs of the leader you support. How do you work with them? And other stakeholders perhaps that want pieces of your executives time that you’re supporting. It’s very, very fascinating. And you’re so right. This is such a unique role, but I think that’s also what draws us all to it. Because it’s so for the right kind of person, this is an amazing career.

[12:28] NAOMI BIRMAN: You know, one of the leaders asked me, you know, hey, you’re new here. What, what are your best practices for organizing tasks? And I said, well, it’s the system that works for you. And I could tell in the moment that frustrated her because, you know, what? Some people, it’s paper and pencil. Other people, it’s sticky notes. Some people, it’s digital, some people, it’s an Asana board or a Monday board. I kind of don’t care how you stay organized. I just want to know it’s working. And if it’s not working, then let’s figure out a system. And she ended up saying, well, it’s working, but I think it could be better. Okay, then let’s figure that out together. So we start that this company uses Notion a lot. So we started a Notion page. I drafted something on how, you know, I think this is how we could start tracking your tasks together and how you could communicate with me on them. And I did it right before I came to Nashville. So I said, let’s talk about it when I get back. So you can look at it. You can see Mike, the system work for you. Might it not have already seen some notifications coming in so I can see she’s in there. I love Notion. I love Notion and at events like this, what we really pride ourselves on is giving EAs access to all of these different ways of working, all of these different tools.

[13:17] LEAH WARWICK: But what you’re saying is so true, you have all this knowledge of what could work. So when you’re executive asked you, well, what do you think? And maybe we can try this. You have things in your back pocket to pull out. You know how to build an AI assistant with ChatGPT. You know how to use these project management tools. But ultimately the one you go with needs to be the one that works best for your leaders.

[13:47] LEAH WARWICK: We do have a listener question for you from our community. They wrote into us, if my exec isn’t naturally collaborative, how do I gently encourage more two way communication and partnership between us?

[14:13] NAOMI BIRMAN: You know, it’s something that kind of came up in the round tables yesterday. Uh, you know, I think that there’s different executives out there who want different kind of assistants and they think they know what they want. So kind of understanding, are you, are you want, do you want that collaborative assistant? Do you want a partner? Or do you want a traditional assistant who is just going to do what you ask me to do and not really provide any kind of feedback or suggestions. And if that’s the case, I would say that is probably not a good fit for you long term. But in that short term, you could say, hey, in my past roles, I have worked really collaboratively with my executive. I’d love it if we could continue that moving forward. You know, maybe in our, in our one-to-ones, can we dedicate a few minutes to me bringing you suggestions, things that I’m seeing, and kind of testing the waters to see how they respond to that. And if they’re consistently shutting you down, then it’s probably not the best fit. And maybe you need to start thinking, where are the other places that I am going to get that fulfillment where I can be more strategic and collaborative because I’m not getting that here.

[15:06] NAOMI BIRMAN: You know, I had, uh, I worked for a leader who was very heads down in the work. He was not great at delegating. He didn’t necessarily want to hear my suggestions all the time because he was just so busy and overwhelmed. And I get, I understood that. And so I would try and bring things up sometimes, but I would also say, I know you can’t do this, but do you want me to do it? And I, and I give him two choices. Right? I can do this, or I can do this or we can try and do both. But I just want to make sure we’re kind of aligned on where we’re going. And a lot of times he’d be like, Hey, I can’t do it, but I know you need to, so you go for it. You know, he knew that I needed that. And so every once in a while, I would get that opportunity. And that was kind of how we worked together. So it doesn’t have to be, you know, all collaborative or none, you know, it can kind of be a blend of what works for you.

[15:46] LEAH WARWICK: I think what comes up for me too is that, you know, I’ve heard questions like, you know, everyone in the organization at leadership, whatever level, they’ll understand what they do. They’re a VP of marketing. Oh, they’re in sales. They do X, Y, Z. They’re an EA. What do they actually do? So it’s, it’s popping up a lot. It’s like, how do I get them to understand what I do? How do I prove that they need me? And so I think there’s this element of demonstrating what you can do to then say, what I’m capable of is so much more than you’re utilizing. And also, if you have bandwidth, doing that outside of the four walls of the executive office. So, you know, if you are doing special projects, if you are on a committee, being visible across the organization and again, not in a look at me way, but in a professional development way.

[16:07] NAOMI BIRMAN: That is such a great answer because we do hear a lot about visibility and, you know, telling the story of what you do. And so it’s like a log. One tip I’ve heard is you log what you’re doing, especially if you think of it as kind of demonstrating the value you bring. And you know, ultimately demonstrating value should be happening with a metrics, a results, and it can for certain things. But I also think just telling people, posting about things, how many meetings have you planned? What, you know, did you utilize AI in some way and tell us about it, those kinds of things. They should live in a public platform, like LinkedIn or even, you know, internally in the Slack channel if there is one for EAs.

[16:37] LEAH WARWICK: Yeah. There should be as many EA’s in an organization to have one. You know, I will say that if you are logging what you’re doing, especially if, let’s say you’re not doing EA work. So maybe you’re doing project work or you’re doing something else. That’s what you want to keep track of. Don’t keep track of your scheduling because they know you’re scheduling. They know you’re booking travel. They know you’re, you know, finding a plumber because the sink broke. Like they get that, that you’re, you’re doing that.

[17:03] LEAH WARWICK: It’s the things that they don’t see you doing. And then when you come to them for your one-to-one or your annual review, you have the data of, hey, I know you may not have realized this, but I also did X, Y, Z over the last quarter over the last year. And so it’s those kinds of things. But even if you are talking about, you know, I know there’s been conversations about, you know, booking meetings. Right? Do I need an EA just to book meetings? Okay. Take a step back. How many meetings are you booking a day? How many meetings are you booking a week? How much time, you know, who can do six back to back one to one? Probably not. A lot of people, you know, kind of giving them some perspective on what that actually is. But also, again, if that’s the only thing that you want an EA to do, then maybe you don’t, don’t really need an EA. Maybe you need a calendar management.

[17:55] NAOMI BIRMAN: That’s so good. And I think that also leads me to a final point I’d love to end on, which is the idea of community. So make sure other people know what you’re doing as a way of demonstrating your value. Also join community to see what other EAs are doing. And you do a lot in the community. So how are you staying connected? How are you giving back? What does that look like in an EA’s day to day? Like when do they find time to give back and stay involved in community?

[18:31] LEAH WARWICK: You know, I think it is intentional time blocking. You have to block time on your calendar and be really disciplined with it and then build community into it. Now, you know, to be honest, I don’t always have the time to do it, but I do try, you know, I lead one free call once a month. I help organize and co lead a New York City EA dinner quarterly. And, you know, it takes time, but I feel much more fulfilled in doing it than if I just kept my head down and worked on my day to day. You know, if you can get involved in something like that, you’re not only becoming a better EA, but you’re building a really phenomenal network for whenever you need your next role or if you just want to know who’s working at what company, because you want to understand how that company works, or you want to join it, you know, the network is so invaluable. And so I think that that community piece of it, of building community, you know, I wouldn’t be where I am today without this community that I have, which is incredibly vast.

[19:16] LEAH WARWICK: Naomi, thank you so much. That was such a wonderful conversation. So many great tips, ideas, things to really dive into and think about, especially this, like meeting your executive where they’re at. Thank you so much for coming on the show today.

[19:36] NAOMI BIRMAN: Thanks so much for having me, Leah. This was wonderful.

[19:56] LEAH WARWICK: Thanks for listening to this episode. To learn more about the American Society of Administrative Professionals, training opportunities for administrative professionals. and to join our community, go to asaporg.com. Video production by 5Tool Productions.