Leah Warwick: Hi everyone, I’m Leah Warwick and you’re listening to the Admin Edge. Here at ASAP when we’re talking to executives, they almost always tell us that they’re looking for more EAs with project management skills. Now, we offer ASAP courses on PM, it’s in our certifications, and we offer training at our events. For this episode, I loved talking to project management trainer Tamara McLemore about how EAs can demonstrate their project leadership. So, let’s get into it.

Hi, I’m Leah Warwick, Senior Content Manager for the American Society of Administrative Professionals. My guest today is Tamara McLemore, Chief Impact Officer at Tamara Joy McLemore Enterprises, and trainer at this event EA Ignite. Welcome to the podcast, Tamara.

Tamara McLemore: Thank you for having me, I am super excited to be here. I mean, I got zero sleep because I felt like first day of school, I’m super excited.

Leah Warwick: What does the experience been like so far for you onsite?

Tamara McLemore: It has been absolutely amazing. The people I’ve been meeting, everybody is a project manager in my eyes. The keynote just blew me away, like I’m a participant. I know technically I’m a speaker, but I’m in a participant mindset because you can always learn so much. That’s my frame of mind, I’m a learner.

Leah Warwick: Same. I love how you have that mindset. I too am my continuous learner, and I was seated for our keynote this morning with Deesha Dyer, I was really taking everything in.

One of the topics you’re training on at EA Ignite is how to show up as a leading EA project manager.

Tamara McLemore: Yeah.

Leah Warwick: And we know EAs are project managers, you might say accidentally — don;t realize they are perhaps, but they are. What are some practical steps they can take to make their prowess strategically visible to other stakeholders, such as their executives?

Tamara McLemore: Oh, great question. I am an accidental project manager. I’ve been in it for 20 plus years. I don’t want to date myself, but I’ve been in for a really long time, and everybody is an accidental project manager. I’m not Beyoncé, I didn’t wake up like this. What I tell everybody, regardless of your title: you’re a project manager.

The first thing we have to do—and this is for everybody—we have to take certain words out of our vocabulary. The word “just.” Oh, I cringe when I hear that word: “I just, I just.” It does something to my insides. I “only.” We have to take out those words, and then I “help.” No, you plan, lead, and manage.

Then I like to do what’s called a little brag book. It’s not the fancy, it’s in your notes. So, Leah, let me ask you a question. What did you eat two days ago?

Leah Warwick: I do not recall.

Tamara McLemore: What did you wear three days ago?

Leah Warwick: I do not recall.

Tamara McLemore: So how in the heck can we expect leaders or our managers, or even ourselves, to remember what we’ve done for the whole year? How do we expect to remember, or expect someone else to remember? We’re not and no one can.

That’s why that brag book is in our notes in our phone, or maybe it’s on a spreadsheet and you actually put those projects in. This event is a project, training is a project, relocation to one office to the next is a project. I plan, lead, and manage. You put how many people were impacted, was it from state to state, was it a combination. You put that in your notes; and when you come to performance review time, you have everything that you’ve done. And nobody wants to read a dissertation, just put it in bullets, bam, bam, bam.

Leah Warwick: Yes, and you’re so right. Nobody knows your work better than you. Your boss probably does not know the half of what you’re doing, right?

Tamara McLemore: Absolutely not. Because you get it done and you make it seem so effortless.

I always tell people we have to toot our own horn. They used to tell us to work with our heads down and just do the work. No, we cannot do that anymore; because when it’s time for raises, promotion, advancement, and these professional development programs, they undermine us because we haven’t tooted our own horn, and they forget the contributions that we make.

They know we’re doing a lot. I said next to someone today and she was working. I had to cover her phone and yell her to breathe. And she said, “This is the last message.” And I did the countdown: five, four, three. And it was her boss, you know, very supportive, sponsored her to come. I had to flip it on her and say, “You have to have boundaries. You’re here, but you’re not present.” We have to take responsibility of our professional development. And when we’re here, be here. Be engaged, be here. I was like that. I’m a recovering one of thos. And what my mentor told me, well, he didn’t tell me. I was so tight and tense. Now you can’t do this anymore in common day, but he had to put his hands on me.

And he said, “Tam, calm down. You’re not a surgeon. You are not doing open heart surgery. Nobody’s getting ready to die.” And I can feel the weight being lifted. When I get like that, I just have to remember that and I can still feel his hands on me. And nobody’s going to die. Nobody is going to die.

Leah Warwick: No. A tiny caveat, probably not. But no, we’re not saving lives. We’re doing great work. And we should be proud of the great work that we’re doing. But at the end of the day, it’s just a job.

Tamara McLemore: That part.

Leah Warwick: Right. And that job is is a lot. So when we talk about projects, you mentioned, this event is a project. One hundred percent. If we could peel back the curtain a little bit, there are project management principles that went into making this event [EA Ignite] happen because you have to initiate. You have to plan. You have to control and do the Lessons Learned.

Tamara McLemore: I can see the huge difference from the first two events that I attended. Now, they were absolutely amazing. I’m like, how are they going to top that? But you guys have managed to, because of the lessons learned you implemented on the new projects. That’s project management.

Leah Warwick: Lessons Learned is one of the most important parts. In fact, our Lessons Learned document is going around our group chat right now. While we’re on site, we put things in because we’re going to forget when we get home.

Tamara McLemore: Absolutely. Nobody remembers.

Leah Warwick: And that is so key. Everyone tends to forget that part. There’s always a project management phase that people forget. And I find it’s often the closing. The close.

Tamara McLemore: Yes.

Leah Warwick: The close is extremely important. So whether that’s an event, whether it’s an office move— that something that EAs are often tasked with. That is a project.

Tamara McLemore: Huge project.

Leah Warwick: Any sort of transition — maybe you’re installing new software for the whole company. Maybe it’s a green initiative. Maybe it’s a board member meeting that’s extremely important. Maybe it’s an offsite. These are all projects. EAs are often the leaders of these projects.

What have you seen work well where it gets people thinking when they see this EA leading the project: “This is a leader, this is a project management expert.”

Tamara McLemore: First we have to believe it. It’s the posture and just owning the room, not shrinking, not standing in the back, but actually taking a seat at the table next to your executive. That’s the first thing. You can’t be running in and out. You have to understand that you deserve a seat at the table. You have to be there.

Right now I’m training two EAs; their manager put them in my project management certification, but I’m coaching them as well. They’re doing hospital renovations. They actually go out and tour the facility, see the vendors that they had been emailing and talking to, work with logistics, meet face to face. It’s one thing sitting behind a computer screen, but when you actually go, she was like, “Ok, Tam, now I’m getting it.” Why it’s so important to actually plan, execute, and absolutely monitor.

It’s so important that we get that first, and you have to do whatever you can to get it because like I said, I don’t wake up like this. I’m nervous presenting, but I have to listen to some Eminem, “Lose Yourself,” or some Jay Z, a little gospel music to pump myself up to say, “I deserve to be in a room.”

Little known fact: I have a journalism communications degree.

Leah Warwick: Oh, nice.

Tamara McLemore: Yes. I normally ask people to to guess, but nobody ever guesses. I wanted it to be Hannah Storm and Barbara Walters, before Oprah.

So I’m a technical PM and I live in Atlanta, Georgia. And often I’m told when I’m interviewing, “Tan you’re going up against Georgia Tech grads. But we have to hire you.” It’s because I am able to articulate what I have plan, led, and managed. That is the biggest thing. When you’re in the rooms, when you’re with your leader, make sure that you remind them what you have done and toot your own horn.

Once you get used to it, they will get used to you saying it, and they will put you in a forefront. That has been my experience.

Leah Warwick: That is such a great answer because I have found that to be true in my own life. Half the project is communicating the project to everyone. And it feels a little weird becauseI feel like I’m just telling everyone what I’m doing. But it’s like, yes, exactly! Because you have to tell them what you’re doing every step of the process and making sure everyone is aligned. The communication element is key.

Tamara McLemore: It’s 90% of project management; 90% of it is communicating the project. I had imposter syndrome 20 years ago, but I’m over it because when I realized that 90% of project management is communication, I’m like, “That’s why I’m so good at it.” And that’s why I outshine all the engineers, the PEs, the people that are really smart with a whole bunch of alphabets behind their name. That’s why I’ll outshine them because I’m able to communicate what I plan, led, and managed.

Leah Warwick: Because what are projects made up of? People. Especially if you’re an EA project manager, you’re more so on the people side of things. Even if it’s something involving technology, you’re mostly dealing with the people that are involved with a change, right? So getting your executive on a new AI system, that is a project. Even though maybe it’s just your executive involved and then maybe there’s a couple other people involved, you still have to communicate. You still have to be on top of that project.

Tamara McLemore: And you said, “just,” I just have to autocorrect you. My nickname is “Autocorrect,” that’s an inside joke. But I don’t like women to say “just” and “only.”

I help everyone who says it to stop saying it because that is huge. That’s a mindset shift. And when you’re interviewing, that’s the interview question: How do you get executives to go into a new technology? You slide it in. Give them the impact of your project management tools. You’ll get the job every time if you’re able to articulate that.

Leah Warwick: Yes. Thank you for that because I do that a lot. I think earlier today someone said, “You’re going to be on stage” and I said, “Well, just for a few minutes.” It’s almost like a reflex. It’s almost like unconscious when it happens. So, thank you. That’s important for our audience to hear as well, like: “I just got our executive team on this new AI tool.” You “just”? That’s huge!

Tamara McLemore: I had a EA from Mercedes-Benz and they relocated, I think from New York to Atlanta. And we were going over her projects and I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, you did what? You moved a whole corporation, a major corporation to Atlanta. You’ve helped set up a new facility where parts are being manufactured. She’s like, “Yeah, I just, only…” I could not do that. I’ve been doing this for 20 years and I cannot go do that today.

Leah Warwick: Every time I talk to an EA, I’m bowled over by how much they’re doing. It’s just taking that extra step. Ah, I said it, “just” taking that extra step. Easier said than done, right?

We often say, the answer is communication skills. Through project management is one way you can build your communication skills. It’s not, “I’m just not good at communicating.” It’s verbal. It’s written. It’s reports. It’s dashboards.

Tamara McLemore: Because executives don’t want to read a dissertation. So, how can you make their life easier? Once, when I went to a new organization, I asked the executive, “How do you want this report?” He said, “Tam, if I have to scroll, it’s too much.” I’m like, I love you. We did red, green, and yellow. It was a dashboard. And he was like, “Oh, great.”

Leah Warwick: And that’s something you have to learn too. Some people have different communication styles and prefer their communication delivered in a certain way. So, asking is also great: “How would you like this for the future? And that’s how I’ll do it.” A lot of people think that you have to try to figure it out.

Tamara McLemore: No, no, no. I’m asking.

Leah Warwick: It’s a real nice shortcut to ask, especially if you’re starting out with the executive, you don’t know each other very well. Ask the questions. That’s the perfect time.

Tamara McLemore: Absolutely.

Leah Warwick: You are a project management expert who comes with that communication skill background which is, I’m sure, a huge asset.

Tamara McLemore: Huge.

Leah Warwick: At the same time, I’m sure that you have made mistakes along the way. We all have, I certainly have. What are some common pitfalls that you’ve experienced and how would you advise EAs to avoid them for leading projects to success?

Tamara McLemore: I know this is an unpopular answer: You can’t avoid them. So you just have to embrace them.

Leah Warwick: Yes.

Tamara McLemore: Inproject management, we have this methodology. It’s newer to the rest of the world. In tech, we’ve been doing it. Are you an iPhone or Android user?

Leah Warwick: iPhone.

Tamara McLemore: What does Apple do to us about once a month?

Leah Warwick: They update the iPhone.

Tamara McLemore: Yes. And is it perfect?

Leah Warwick: No. It has bugs so they need to update it, right?

Tamara McLemore: So they make mistakes. But guess what? They’re learning from their mistakes and they’re going to send a patch and it’s going to be all better in about a week or two.

The methodology of failing fast is a project management methodology. You want to hurry up and fail as fast as you can. That way you can learn from it. And it takes the sting out of failing and making mistakes, because you’re going to make them.

Leah Warwick: Right.

Tamara McLemore: And it is a mindset shift to say, let’s fail. It saves not hundreds of thousands, but millions of dollars if you can fail quicker, because we don’t have to have a do over. We can learn from it and move on.

Let me give you an example. Instead of doing a project from January to December, implementing in December and saying, this doesn’t work or I thought it was going to look different. What if we started in January and had implemented in February or March to say, it doesn’t look like how we thought it would look? You see how many months we’ve saved on time, paying resources, frustration, embarrassment? Just go ahead and fail, get the sting. It’s like when you fall and get a scratch, put some ointment on it, keep it moving. That’s it.

Leah Warwick: Yeah. Because otherwise you’re not going to learn what needs to be learned a lot of the time. I’ve heard that failure is actually great. It’s one of the best ways to learn.

Tamara McLemore: When you think about all the multi-billion dollar companies, all the really successful people, they visualize failing. And if you really listen to masterminds and things like that, masterclasses, they keep their last dollar from when they were homeless, living on somebody’s couch and somebody’s garage. They keep that picture and they envision failure—because they’ve already failed—and what it took to overcome that, and they implement that. That’s another good thing that comes out of failure. I’m a glass half full person. It’s not all gloom and doom. So yeah, let’s fail. Let’s hurry up and fail and keep it moving.

Leah Warwick: Yeah. Let’s take the sting out of the word “fail.” It’s trying. It’s another way to try. And if you don’t try, you’ll never know.

Tamara McLemore: There you go. There you go.

Leah Warwick: You’re such a positive person. And not only that, you’re so good at framing things. How you frame a rethinking is so great. I love talking to you about that.

Tamara McLemore: Thank you.

Leah Warwick: We do have a listener question submitted by one of our community members. They wrote in: “I love to use project management tools, but my team prefers to keep things casual. How can I introduce more structure without meeting resistance?”

Tamara McLemore: So here’s the thing, everybody wants to announce: “Today is Monday and we’re going to do project management starting today.” Don’t strong arm people. Slide it in. It’s like medicine. Make it sweet and just do it. Like Nike says, just do it. Don’t announce it. And pick and choose what you think the least resistance will be, and just start it.

For instance, status meetings. We can all read, why do we need a status meeting? Our company pays for dashboards. But we’re going to have a meeting to go over something that we have read? Make it make sense.

We have the notes. AI has done the notes for us. It breaks it down so clearly, why are we having these meetings? So then put on the calendars instead of an hour-long meeting, 15 minutes. We’re not going to make an announcement. It’s just going to be on their calendar a little shorter time. And we’re going to do a stand-up, meaning I’m going to talk about what I did, right? What I did yesterday, what I’m going to do today, any roadblocks. And we’re going to keep it moving. And before you know it, we have implemented an agile methodology.

Leah Warwick: I love a 15 minute stand-up. We have all the resources, so it’s really just for questions, blockers that have come up, this is the space to air them. If there’s nothing, great, we can end this meeting.

Tamara McLemore: Absolutely. So many tips like that, I have people implementing, but you cannot force it. And that’s what people try to do. And people don’t want to be force-fed anything.

Leah Warwick: No. And I think it sometimes can help if you start slowly weaving it in, but also with a why. Know what the purpose is.

Tamara McLemore: Absolutely.

Leah Warwick: It has to serve not just you, but the business, others. We’re doing this because it’s going to help everybody, and not just thinking of yourself and what you want to achieve.

And that can be hard, especially for EAs. Often you’re in a very specific kind of role. So getting more into project management, I think is a really great way to expand your communication skills, your collaboration skills, your conflict resolution skills. All of it. Learning how to lead meetings, that’s a huge one. Learning how to report on the dashboards.

Tamara McLemore: Absolutely.

Leah Warwick: And do the bullets, like you were saying. It combines so many skills into one.

Tamara McLemore: It does. And let me say this: I have actually experienced this many times because agile, although it’s been out forever, companies are just starting to embrace it. So, I had worked for a major organization and they flat out told me “agile” is a bad word. It was like, we know you have this little agile certification. Do not mention it. It is a bad word. You will not get hired.

Point taken. So I did not mention it. Fast forward about six months while I was there. Guess what? We started releasing every two weeks functionality that the engineers could use. We were doing, instead of Lessons Learned at the end of the year, we were doing retrospectives: What went right? What wwnr wrong? And they loved it. They were like, what is this called? They fell in love with it. Now, don’t say the word.

Leah Warwick: I’m going to say it’s agile, but that’s what it is!

Tamara McLemore: So you kinda gotta trick people.

Leah Warwick: Words are powerful, and sometimes people have a connotation with a certain word. So, did they think that agile meant, we have to meet all the time and be really quick?

Tamara McLemore: I think they just didn’t understand it, and why try to explain something. They had been doing their job, very successful, why do I need a new tool? And I’m like, don’t worry about it. We’re gonna implement this. And we were up in the group chats just bugging up laughing, like this is hilarious. And they literally told us at the end of the last two iterations of releases—now picture grown men, middle age, saying, “This is so exciting. This is so fun. You guys just surprise us, we want it to be like Christmas.” With the technology, every two weeks we were deciding what we’re going to deliver. And they’re like, “You know what? Just make it a surprise. You guys have been doing a fabulous job. You know what we like.” And we’re like, hmm, you don’t say!

Leah Warwick: Wow. That’s a great story. And it goes to show, there’s a lot of reward that can come out of it, and you explain so many of these concepts so well. I think sometimes an EA hears “project management” and they’re like, what? You see there’s so many different ways you could go about it. But you broke it down in a very clear and helpful way, so, thank you so much.

Tamara McLemore: Thank you.

Leah Warwick: And where can our listeners find you online?

Tamara McLemore: They can find me on LinkedIn. That’s where I hang out the most. Look me up: Tamara McLemore. You’ll see all the hot pink.

I’m also on my website: https://projectbusinessacademy.com/. I do free 101s. I like to hear what the people are going through. I have templates to help individuals outline projects that they’ve already done; so when professional development time comes up, review and appraisal time comes up, they’ll have the projects that they’ve done. That is free online for everyone.

Leah Warwick: Thank you so much. I really appreciated talking to you.

Tamara McLemore: Thank you for having me.

Leah Warwick: Thank you for listening to the Admin Edge, produced by the American Society of Administrative Professionals. Original music and audio editing by Warwick Productions, with audio and video production by 5Tool productions. If you like this podcast, please leave us a nice review, five stars, and subscribe. If you’d like to submit a listener question, you may do so on our website at asaporg.com/podcast.