[00:00] LEAH WARWICK: Hi everyone, I’m Leah Warwick and you’re listening to the Admin Edge. Here at ASAP when we’re talking to executives, they almost always tell us that they’re looking for more EAs with project management skills. Now, we offer ASAP courses on PM, it’s in our certifications, and we offer training at our events. So for this episode, I love talking to project management trainer, Tamara McLemore, about how EAs can demonstrate their project leadership. So let’s get into it.

[00:43] LEAH WARWICK: Hi, I’m Leah Warwick, Senior Content Manager for the American Society of Administrative Professionals. My guest today is Tamara McLemore, Chief Impact Officer at Tamara Joy McLemore Enterprises, and trainer at this event EA Ignite. Welcome to the podcast, Tamara.

[00:59] TAMARA MCLEMORE: Thank you for having me, I am super excited to be here. I mean, I got like zero sleep because I felt like first day of school, I’m super excited.

[01:09] LEAH WARWICK: So what does the experience been like so far for you on site?

[01:12] TAMARA MCLEMORE: It has been absolutely amazing, just the people I’ve been meeting, everybody is a project manager in my eyes, and so the keynote just blew me away, like I’m a participant. I know technically I’m a speaker, but I’m in a participant mindset because you can always learn so much. So that’s what my frame of mind, I’m a learner.

[01:35] LEAH WARWICK: Same, same. I love how you have that mindset, I too, and my continuous learner, and I was seated for our keynote this morning with Disha Dyer, I was really taking everything in. So one of the topics you’re training on at EA Ignite is how to show up as a leading EA project manager.

[01:53] TAMARA MCLEMORE: Yeah.

[01:54] LEAH WARWICK: And we know EAs are project managers, you might say accidentally don’t realize they are perhaps, but they are. So what are some practical steps they can take to make their prowess strategically visible to other stakeholders, such as their executives?

[02:11] TAMARA MCLEMORE: Oh, great question. So let me just say this, I have a, let me back up. So I am an accidental project manager. I’ve been in for 20 plus years, I don’t want to date myself, but I’ve been in for a really long time, and everybody is an accidental project manager. I’m not beyond say I didn’t wake up like this. So I’m an accidental project manager. And what I tell everybody, regardless of your title, your project manager. And so the first thing we have to do, and this is for everybody, we have to take certain words out of our vocabulary. The word I just, oh, I cringe when I hear that word, I just, I just, it does something to my insides, I only, oh, we have to take those words and then I help. No, no, you plan, lead, lead, and manage.

[03:07] TAMARA MCLEMORE: And then I like to do what’s called a little brag book, a brag book. And it’s, it’s not the fancy, it’s in your notes. So Leo, let me ask you a question. What did you eat two, two days ago?

[03:17] LEAH WARWICK: I do not recall.

[03:19] TAMARA MCLEMORE: What did you wear three, three, three days ago?

[03:22] LEAH WARWICK: I do not recall.

[03:24] TAMARA MCLEMORE: I feel like I’m on the stand, you know? So how in the heck can we expect leaders or our managers or even ourselves to remember what we’ve done for the whole year? How do we expect to remember or expect someone else to remember? No, no, we not, we’re not and no one can. So that’s why that brag book, like I said, it’s, it’s nothing fancy, but it’s in our notes in our phone or maybe it’s on a spreadsheet and you actually put those projects. This event is a project, training is a project, relocation to one office to the next is a project I plan, lead, and manage. And you put how many people were impacted, was it from state to state, was it a combination. You put that in your notes when you come to performance review time, you have everything that you’ve done. And nobody wants to read a dissertation, just put it in bullets, bam, bam, bam.

[04:19] LEAH WARWICK: Yes.

[04:20] TAMARA MCLEMORE: And you’re so right. Nobody knows your work better than you. Your boss probably does not know the half of what you’re doing, right?

[04:26] LEAH WARWICK: Absolutely not. Because you get it done and you make it seem so effortlessly.

[04:30] TAMARA MCLEMORE: And that’s, you know, I always tell people we have to to our own horn. You know, they used to tell us to work with our heads down and, you know, and just do the work. No, no, no, we cannot do that anymore because when it’s time for raises and promotion and advancement and these professional development programs, they, they undermine us because we haven’t tuned our own horn and they forget the contributions that we make.

[04:57] TAMARA MCLEMORE: They know we’re doing a lot. I said next to a today and she was working, I had to, I didn’t even notice lady, I had to cover her phone and sell her to breathe. And she said, this is the last message. And I did the countdown five, four, three. And it was her boss, you know, very supportive, you know, sponsored her to come. I had to flip it on her and say, you have to have boundaries. You’re here, but you’re not present. And so we have to take responsibility of our professional development. And when we’re here, be here, be engaged, like be here. This is an analogy because I was like that. Like I’m a recovering one of those like recovering. And what my mentor told me, well, he didn’t tell me he literally, I was so tight and tense. Now you can’t do this anymore in common day, but he had to put his hands on me.

[05:39] TAMARA MCLEMORE: And he said, Tim, we’re calm down. You’re not a surgeon. You are not doing open heart surgery. Nobody’s getting ready to die. And I can feel the weight being lifted. And so when I get like that, I just have to remember that and I can still feel his hands on me. And I just, nobody’s going to die. Nobody is going to die.

[06:00] LEAH WARWICK: No.

[06:01] TAMARA MCLEMORE: Probably not. I mean, I guess a little tiny caveat, probably not, but like, no, I mean, we’re not saving lives. We’re doing great work. And we should be proud of the great work that we’re doing. But at the end of the day, it’s just a job.

[06:15] LEAH WARWICK: That part.

[06:16] TAMARA MCLEMORE: Right. So.

[06:17] LEAH WARWICK: And that job is is a lot.

[06:25] LEAH WARWICK: So when we talk about projects, you mentioned this event is a project 100%. If we could peel back the curtain a little bit, there are project management principles that went into making this event happen because you have to initiate. You have to plan. You have to control and definitely the lessons learned because I can see the huge difference from the first two events that I attended. Now, they were absolutely amazing. I’m like, how are they going to top that? But you guys have managed to because the lessons learned you implemented on the new projects. That’s project management.

[06:57] LEAH WARWICK: Lessons learned is one of the most important parts. In fact, our lesson learned document is going around our group chat right now. Of like, while we’re on site, put things in because you’re going to forget, we’ll meet at home.

[07:11] TAMARA MCLEMORE: Absolutely. Nobody remembers. And that is so key. Everyone tends to forget that part. There’s always a project management phase that people forget. And I find it’s often the closing.

[07:21] LEAH WARWICK: The close.

[07:22] TAMARA MCLEMORE: Yes. The close is extremely important. So whether that’s an event, whether it’s an office move, we’re moving offices, like that is something that EAs are often taxed with. That is a project.

[07:33] LEAH WARWICK: Huge project.

[07:35] TAMARA MCLEMORE: Huge project. Any sort of transition, maybe you’re installing new software for the whole company. Maybe it’s a green initiative. Maybe it’s a board member meeting that’s extremely important. Maybe it’s an off site. These are all projects. So EAs are often the leaders of these projects.

[07:59] LEAH WARWICK: Absolutely. So what have you worked, what have you seen work well where it gets people thinking when they see this EA leading the project, this is a leader, this is a project management expert.

[08:09] TAMARA MCLEMORE: Well, first we have to believe it. So the posture and just owning the room, not shrinking, not standing in the back, but actually taking a seat at the table next to your executive. That’s the first thing you can’t be running in and out. And you have to understand that you deserve a seat at the table. You have to be there. So right now I’m training two EAs, their manager put them in my project management certification, but I’m coaching them as well. So they’re doing hospital renovations. They got to actually go out and tour the facility, see the vendors that they had been emailing and talking to work with logistics and meet face to face. And there’s one thing was sitting behind a computer scene, but when you actually go, she was like, oh, she’s like, okay, Tim, right now I’m getting it. Why is so important to actually plan and execute and absolutely monitor. So it’s just so important that we get that, uh, first and us, yes, yes.

[09:23] LEAH WARWICK: And you have to do whatever you can to get it because like I said, I don’t wake up like this.

[09:29] TAMARA MCLEMORE: I’m nervous, you know, presenting, but I have to listen to some M&M, lose yourself or some Jay Z, a little gospel music to pump myself up to say, I deserve to be in a room. Little note fact, I have a journalism communications degree.

[09:43] LEAH WARWICK: Oh, nice.

[09:44] TAMARA MCLEMORE: Yes. I normally ask people to to guess, but nobody ever guesses. I want it to be Hannah Storm and Barbara Walters before Oprah. So I’m a technical PM and I live in Atlanta, Georgia. And so I’m often told times when I’m interviewing, oh, Tim, you’re going up against Georgia Tech Gras. But we have to hire you because I am able to articulate what I have plan led and manage. And that is the biggest thing. So when you’re in the rooms, when you’re with your, um, leader, make sure that you remind them what you have done and to your own horn. And once you get used to it, they will get used to you saying it and they will put you in a forefront. That has been my experience.

[10:22] LEAH WARWICK: That is such a great answer because I have found that to be true in my own life. Half the project is communicating the project to everyone. And it feels a little weird because I’m like, I feel like I’m just we’re telling everyone what I’m doing. It’s like, yes, exactly because if you don’t tell them what you’re doing, every step of the process and making sure everyone is aligned and all of this, the communication element is key.

[10:53] TAMARA MCLEMORE: It’s 90% of project management, 90% more than half, I was like, maybe I’m, maybe I should go more 90% of it is communicating the project. Once I realized that like I had imposter syndrome 20 years ago, so I’m over it because when I realized that 90% of project management’s communication, I’m like, that’s why I’m so good at it. And that’s why I’m outshine all the engineers, the PEs, the people that are really smart with a whole bunch of alphabets behind their name, that’s why I’ll shine them because I’m able to communicate what I plan, lid and managed.

[11:30] LEAH WARWICK: I mean, because what are projects made up of people?

[11:32] TAMARA MCLEMORE: People.

[11:33] LEAH WARWICK: People, especially if you’re an EA project manager, you’re more so on the people side of things. Even if it’s something involving technology, you’re mostly dealing with the people that are involved with a change, right? So getting your executive on a new AI system, that is a project. Even though maybe it’s just, you know, your executive involved and then maybe there’s a couple other people involved, like you still have to communicate, you still have to be on top of that project.

[11:58] TAMARA MCLEMORE: That is huge. That is huge. And you say just, I just have to autocorrect you, my nickname is autocorrect, that’s an inside joke. But I don’t like women to say just and only. And so I just help everyone who says it to stop saying it because that is huge, that’s a mindset shift. And when you’re interviewing, that’s the interview question that you just asked me. Like how do you get executives to go into a new technology? You slide it in, you, you know, give them the impact project management tools. And you’ll get the job every time if you’re able to articulate that.

[12:32] LEAH WARWICK: Yes. Thank you for that because I do that a lot, I think earlier today someone said, oh, you’re going to be on stage and I’m like, well, just just for a few minutes, I’m pretty sure I do. And so it’s so, it’s almost like a reflex. So for someone to point that out, I’m like, did you know you just did that just there? It’s almost like unconscious when it happens. So thank you. And I think that’s important for our audience to hear as well because I just, I just got our executive team on this new AI tool and it’s like, you just like, that’s huge.

[13:04] TAMARA MCLEMORE: I had a EA from, she worked from Mercedes-Benz and they relocated, I think from New York to Atlanta. And we were going over her projects and I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, you did what? You moved a whole corporation, a major corporation to Atlanta. You’ve helped set up a new facility where parts are being manufactured. I mean, she’s like, yeah, only and I just, only, that’s like, I could not do that. And I’ve been in doing this for 20 years and I cannot go do that today.

[13:37] LEAH WARWICK: Yes. So if they just take, I mean, there’s so much going on in these, every time I talk to an EA, I’m bold over by how much they’re doing. So it’s just taking that extra step of, guy, I said, just, just taking that extra step. I mean, easier said than done, right?

[13:50] LEAH WARWICK: I feel like communication, we often say, oh, well, the answer is communication skills. But I do think those are through project management is one way. You can build your communication skills. It’s not, oh, I’m just not good at communicating because you don’t, it’s not verbal. It’s written. It’s I am. It’s reports. It’s dashboards because executives, they don’t want to read a dissertation. So how can you make their life easier? I once, when I went to a new organization, I asked the executive, how do you want this report? He said, Tim, if I have to scroll, it’s too much. I’m like, I love you. Like I’m just going to do, we did red, green, and yellow. And it was a dashboard. And he was like, oh, great. Oh, yeah.

[14:29] LEAH WARWICK: And that’s something you have to learn too. Some people have different communication styles and prefer their communication delivered in a certain way. So asking is also great. How would you like this for the future? And that’s how I’ll do it. And a lot of people think that you have to try to figure it out. No, no, no. I’m asking. It’s a real nice shortcut, a real nice shortcut just to ask, especially if you’re just starting out with the executive. You’ll know each other very well. So ask the questions.

[14:52] TAMARA MCLEMORE: That’s the perfect time.

[14:53] LEAH WARWICK: Absolutely. And so you are a project management expert who comes with that communication skill background which is, I’m sure, a huge asset.

[15:03] TAMARA MCLEMORE: Huge.

[15:04] LEAH WARWICK: So at the same time, I’m sure that you have made mistakes along the way. Like we all have, I certainly have. So what are some common pitfalls that you’ve experienced and how would you advise EAs to avoid them for leading projects to success?

[15:21] TAMARA MCLEMORE: So I know this is an unpopular answer. You can’t avoid them.

[15:26] LEAH WARWICK: Yeah.

[15:27] TAMARA MCLEMORE: So you just have to embrace them.

[15:29] LEAH WARWICK: Yes.

[15:30] TAMARA MCLEMORE: And project management, we have this methodology. It’s newer to the rest of the world. And tech, we’ve been doing it. Are you an iPhone or a drawer user?

[15:39] LEAH WARWICK: I found.

[15:40] TAMARA MCLEMORE: Oh, yes. So now it makes sense. So what does Apple do to us about once a month?

[15:46] LEAH WARWICK: They update the iPhone.

[15:47] TAMARA MCLEMORE: Yes. And so is it perfect?

[15:49] LEAH WARWICK: No.

[15:50] TAMARA MCLEMORE: It has bugs so they need to update it, right? So they make mistakes. But guess what? They’re learning from their mistakes and they’re going to send a patch and it’s going to be all better in about a week or two. And the methodology of failing fast is a project management methodology. You want to hurry up and fail as fast as you can. That way you can learn from it. And it takes the sting out of failing and making mistakes because you’re going to make them.

[16:16] LEAH WARWICK: Right.

[16:17] TAMARA MCLEMORE: And it is a mindset shift to say, let’s fail. It saves not hundreds of thousands, but millions of dollars. If you can fail quicker because we don’t have to have a do over. We can learn from it and move on. And so the methodology, let me give you an example, instead of doing a project from January to December, implementing in December and saying, uh, doesn’t work like designed. Or I thought it was going to look different. What if we had us, we started in January. What if we had implemented in February or March to say, uh, doesn’t look like how we thought it would look? You see how many months we’ve saved on time, paying resources, frustration, embarrassment, just go ahead and fail, get the sting. It’s like when you fall and get a scratch, put some ointment on it, keep it moving. That’s it.

[17:03] LEAH WARWICK: Yeah. Because otherwise you’re not going to learn what needs to be learned a lot of the time. I’ve heard related to failure. Like failure is actually great. It’s one of the best ways to learn the best.

[17:13] TAMARA MCLEMORE: Yeah. When you think about all the multi billion dollar companies, all the really successful people, they visualize failing. And if you really listen to masterminds and things like that master classes, they keep like their last dollar when they were homeless, living on somebody’s couch and somebody’s garage, they keep that picture and they envision failure because they’ve already failed. And what it took to overcome that and they implement that. And so that’s another good thing that comes out of failure. I’m a glass half full person. So I’m like, you know, it’s not all gloom and doom. So yeah, let’s fail. Let’s hurry up and fail and keep it moving.

[17:48] LEAH WARWICK: Yeah. Let’s take the sting out of the word fail.

[17:50] TAMARA MCLEMORE: Yeah. It’s just, it’s trying. It’s just another way to try.

[17:53] LEAH WARWICK: Well, if you don’t try, you’ll never know.

[17:55] TAMARA MCLEMORE: There you go. There you go.

[17:56] LEAH WARWICK: You’re such a positive person. And not only that, you’re so good at framing things. Like how you frame a rethinking is so great. So I love talking to you about that.

[18:04] TAMARA MCLEMORE: Thank you.

[18:05] LEAH WARWICK: And we do have a listener question submitted by one of our community members.

[18:08] TAMARA MCLEMORE: Hey.

[18:09] LEAH WARWICK: They wrote into you. I love to use project management tools, but my team prefers to keep things casual. How can I introduce more structure without meeting resistance?

[18:19] TAMARA MCLEMORE: So here’s the thing everybody wants to announce. And I get, I tell people that are in my classes, don’t just force feed or water holes. Oh, today it’s Monday and we’re going to do project management starting today. Like don’t just strong on people slide it in. It’s like medicine, make it sweet and just do it. Like Nike says, just do it. We’ll announce it and pick and choose what you think the least resistance would be and just start it. So for instance, I have people instead of status meetings, we can all read, why do we need a status meeting?

[18:55] LEAH WARWICK: Right.

[18:56] TAMARA MCLEMORE: Yeah. Our company pays for dashboards. But we’re going to have a meeting to go over something that we have read. Make it make sense. We have the notes. AI has done the notes for us. It breaks it down so clearly why are we having these meetings? So then put on the calendars that have an hour-long meeting of 15 minutes. We’re not going to make an announcement. It’s just going to be on their calendar a little shorter time. And we’re going to do a stand-up, meaning I’m going to talk about what I did right, what I did yesterday, what I’m going to do today, any roadblocks. And we’re going to keep it moving. And before you know it, we have implemented an agile methodology.

[19:33] LEAH WARWICK: I love a 15 minute stand-up. We have all the resources. So it’s really just for questions, walkers that have come up, this is the space to air. Oh, nothing great that we can just end this meeting.

[19:44] TAMARA MCLEMORE: Absolutely. Absolutely. So many tips like that. I have people implemented, but you cannot force it. And that’s what people try to do. And people don’t want to be force-fed anything.

[19:55] LEAH WARWICK: No. And I think it sometimes can help if you start slowly weaving it in, but also with a why? Like know what the purpose is.

[20:02] TAMARA MCLEMORE: Absolutely.

[20:03] LEAH WARWICK: It’s just to serve not just you, but the business, others, we’re doing this because it’s going to help everybody, and not just thinking of yourself and what you want to achieve. And I think that can be hard, especially when for EA is often you’re in a very specific kind of role. So getting more into project management, I think it’s just a really, really great way to expand your communication skills, your collaboration skills, your conflict resolution skills. I mean, all of it, learning how to lead meetings, that’s a huge one, learning how to report on the dashboard.

[20:32] TAMARA MCLEMORE: Absolutely. And do the bullet. It’s like you were saying, I think it just combines so many skills into one.

[20:38] LEAH WARWICK: It does.

[20:39] TAMARA MCLEMORE: And let me say this. So I have actually experienced this many times because agile, although it’s been out forever, companies are just starting to embrace it. So I had worked for a major organization and they fled out, told me, agile is a bad work.

[20:54] LEAH WARWICK: Oh.

[20:55] TAMARA MCLEMORE: You have this little agile certification. Do not mention it. It is a bad word. You will not get hired. Point taken. So I did not mention it fast forward about six months while I was there. Guess what? We started releasing every two weeks functionality that the engineers could use. We were doing instead of lessons learned at the end of the year. We were doing retro spectives. What went right? What would wrong? And they loved it. They’re like, what is this called? They fell in love with it. Now, don’t say the word. And I’m going to say it’s agile, but that’s what it is. So you kind of got to trick people.

[21:31] LEAH WARWICK: Yeah. Well, I think people words are powerful. And sometimes people have a connotation with a certain word. So do they think that agile meant, oh, we have to meet all the time and be really quick?

[21:41] TAMARA MCLEMORE: And I just think they just didn’t understand it.

[21:43] LEAH WARWICK: Right. And why try to explain something, you know, they have been doing their job very successful. How do I need a new tool? And I’m just like, don’t worry about it. We’re going to implement this. And we were, we were on the grouchettes just bugging up laughing like this is hilarious. And they literally told us at the end of the, the last two iterations of releases, they’re like, we wanted now picture grown men, middle age, saying, this is so exciting. This is so fun. You guys just surprised us. We wanted to be like Christmas. It’s a technology because every two weeks we were deciding what we’re going to deliver. And they’re like, you know what? Just make it a surprise. You guys have been doing a fabulous job. You know what we like. And we’re like, hmm, you don’t say wow.

[22:26] LEAH WARWICK: That’s a great story. And this goes to show. I mean, there’s a lot of reward that can come out of it. And I think you explain so many of these concepts so well. I think sometimes an EA here’s project management. And they’re like, what? Like, you know, you see, there’s like so many different ways you could go about it. I think you just broke it down in a very clear and helpful way. So thank you so much.

[22:45] TAMARA MCLEMORE: Thank you.

[22:46] LEAH WARWICK: And where can our listeners find you online?

[22:48] TAMARA MCLEMORE: They can find me on LinkedIn. That’s why I hang out the most. Look, just look me up. Tamara McLemore. You’ll see all the hot pink. I’m also on my website, projectbizacatbusinessacademy.com. I will have all the, I have do free 101’s. I’m not selling you anything. It is a 101. I like to hear what the people are going through. I have free 99. That means it’s free. Templates just to help. And I said the word just to help people. You see how the artwork like myself is good. I have templates to help individuals outline projects that they’ve already done. So professional development time comes up, review appraisal time comes up. They’ll have the projects that they’ve done. So that is free online everyone.

[23:30] LEAH WARWICK: Thank you so much. I really appreciate it talking to you.

[23:33] TAMARA MCLEMORE: Thank you for having me.

[23:35] LEAH WARWICK: Thank you for listening to the Admin Edge, produced by the American Society of Administrative Professionals, our original music and audio editing by Warwick Productions, with audio and video production by 5Tool productions. If you like this podcast, please leave us a nice review, five stars, and subscribe. If you’d like to submit a listener question, you may do so on our website at asaporg.com/podcast.